New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

Lethe

Captain
I had the opportunity to check out a BYD Atto 3 and MG 4 today, alongside a bunch of other EVs from other manufacturers. There was meant to be a BYD Dolphin present too but it was a no-show, as was the BMW-GWM next-generation Mini EV.

The Atto 3 is a more expensive vehicle than MG 4 (really, Dolphin is the more appropriate comparison point) and feels it. The interior styling of Atto 3 is a little too "loud" for my tastes, and I think that is a fairly common view here, but we can break that impression down a little. I quite liked the blue and cream contrast throughout the cabin, the seats were stylish and comfortable. The seat perforations gave me hope that I had somehow missed the inclusion of ventilated seats in the package, but alas no. Are these offered in other markets? The organic contours of the dash and some of the seat material didn't bother me. Everything felt quite solidly put together. The circular speaker-slash-door handle combination was borderline for me aesthetically, though it seemed perfectly functional. The main items I didn't like were the chunky red-accented vent controls, also the red "guitar strings" that serve as the bottle holders. Something about the shape and styling of the steering wheel itself felt a bit off also. A further negative, was limited visibility through the rear window, a weakness shared with the MG4. If the interior of the Atto 3 is a little too "loud" in places, MG4's interior is almost aggressively bland, lacking in any colour or sense of design. Clearly, one can go too far in both directions...

My impressions of the Atto 3's infotainment system were quite positive. Of course I would've preferred some physical dials or buttons to control fan speed and set temperature, but in the world of mainstream EVs these battles seem to have been mostly lost. The voice command system seemed to recognise and handle vehicle functions well enough, but it didn't take long to trip it up when entering local navigation destinations: "jetty" is one word that I could not get it to process correctly despite several attempts. Given that BYD's voice models have probably had very little training on Australian-accent English specifically, I was actually impressed that it worked as well as it did.

I was also intrigued by the BYD reps' suggestion that customers have found that the "slim" spare tyres from other ICE vehicles fit in the space below the boot floor. In Australia, almost every vehicle that is not a Ferrari, PHEV, or EV comes with at least a slim spare tyre. The lack of a spare tyre on the vast majority of PHEVs and EVs is one of those things that I think does sway undecided buyers back to familiar ICE territory. If a spare tyre can fit below the boot floor, then BYD should offer that as an official option, at additional cost of course.

The level of coverage on china ev inc is frankly embarrassing. Some important news from this week that nobody is connecting


Going by the CAAM-sourced data for China sales listed
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, across January to August, BEVs made up "only" 21% of all new vehicles sold. If China EV Inc. has indeed achieved cost parity with ICE, why is the proportion not significantly greater than this?
 

tphuang

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NEV penetration in the recent weeks has reached about 40%

legacy auto still has a ton of dealers that are heavily discounting to get sales out. Brand still helps them to win some sales. But as dealers close, the NEV penetration will continue to climb.

you are not going to hit 100% overnight
 

sndef888

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Going by the CAAM-sourced data for China sales listed
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, across January to August, BEVs made up "only" 21% of all new vehicles sold. If China EV Inc. has indeed achieved cost parity with ICE, why is the proportion not significantly greater than this?
I think PHEV almost has reached cost parity, but not EV.

For example, let's consider a family looking to buy a car for daily city use and long distance a couple times a year.

You can get a C segment ICE sedan (Chevrolet Monza, Nissan Sentra classic edition) for an all-in price of 75-80k, and there are PHEVs that come very close (BYD Qin ~95k, latest Qiyuan A05 ~90k). When you take into account the Qin and Qiyuan being slightly bigger, they are basically almost at cost parity.

But what about pure EV? The cheapest Qin EV at 420km range is around 130k. But 420 is a little short for the same use case, so you would have to get the 510km, which jumps to around 14w.

Basically, EV are still considerably more expensive than ICE for the same "use case"
 

tonyget

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BYD has adopted a self-sufficiency strategy by boosting in-house design and system assembly​


Twice a month, Yole SystemPlus analysts share the noteworthy points from their automotive Teardown Tracks. Today, Benjamin Pussat, Technology & Cost Analysts at Yole SystemPlus, part of Yole Group, takes us to the heart of BYD’s all-in-one high-voltage powertrain, the most integrated electrification system on the market.

From the stand-alone units of 10 years ago to today’s most commonly used 3-in-1 Integrated Power Unit and e-axle, BEV high-voltage integration continues its unbridled progress. On this point, Chinese OEMs are at the helm. Chang’an and Leapmotor already offer 7-in-1 systems. BYD goes a step further by additionally embedding the BMS (battery management system) in the box(1). Thanks to strong incentive policies followed by penalizing regulations (dual-credit mandate), the share of EVs reached 27.6% in China in 2022 whereas it was 0% a decade ago.

Highlights from Yole SystemPlus Automotive Teardown Tracks


The BYD 8-in-1 powertrain includes the BMS, VCU, inverter, PDU, OBC-DC/DC merged into one unit, and the gearbox/e-motor in another. The teardown was performed on all devices apart from the gearbox and e-motor.

img-automotive-teardown-tracks_byd-8in1-system_main-features_ysp_october_2023-1024x662.jpg


Yole SystemPlus observed that the overall system space is optimized, with components placed very close to each other, and sub-boards soldered perpendicular to the OBC/DC-DC power board. This involves the implantation of an efficient thermal management solution characterized by the use of SiC technology for both inverter and OBC-DC/DC MOSFETS, thermal pads placed over critical areas, an insulating sheet and a water-cooling system.

img-automotive-teardown-tracks_byd-8in1-system_details-1_ysp_october_2023-1024x662.jpg


Eleven boards were discovered. Four are used in the inverter area, the other ones in the OBC/DC-DC. Main component identification reveals that BYD still relies on foreign providers for most of the electronic components (led by Texas Instruments). However, local suppliers such as Runic, Len Technology, Novosense and Faratronic provide basic functions components.

Opening the system makes it clear that the Chinese OEM has adopted a self-sufficiency strategy, as most of the key power components have been identified as being manufactured or assembled by BYD (inverter SiC power module, output current sensor module, power relays, DC link capacitor…). This certainly helps the company to lead the total integration race.

img-automotive-teardown-tracks_byd-8in1-system_details-2_ysp_october_2023-1024x662.jpg
 

broadsword

Brigadier
I am beginning to believe BYD harbors the secret ambition to build its own fab plant once China has completed its indigenization.
 

Michael90

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BYD seal obtained EU WVTA certification for export to Europe

Victor Orban visited BYD HQ in Shenzhen

Stellantis and Dongfeng did a little deal here where DF bought back more assets

my thoughts on effect on chip sanctions on ADAS industry
Is Ndivia that far ahead of its Chinese competitors?
 

tphuang

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Wait,what?BYD already have two fabs,didn't you know that?
byd has more than two fabs. However, its fabs are mostly for power chips and MCUs, not the type of chips that require more advanced processes

Is Ndivia that far ahead of its Chinese competitors?
not really, but it is ahead.
 

tphuang

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I think PHEV almost has reached cost parity, but not EV.

For example, let's consider a family looking to buy a car for daily city use and long distance a couple times a year.

You can get a C segment ICE sedan (Chevrolet Monza, Nissan Sentra classic edition) for an all-in price of 75-80k, and there are PHEVs that come very close (BYD Qin ~95k, latest Qiyuan A05 ~90k). When you take into account the Qin and Qiyuan being slightly bigger, they are basically almost at cost parity.

But what about pure EV? The cheapest Qin EV at 420km range is around 130k. But 420 is a little short for the same use case, so you would have to get the 510km, which jumps to around 14w.

Basically, EV are still considerably more expensive than ICE for the same "use case"
without knowing the margins, the dealer discounts and things like that. Your comparison is just irrelevant. Keep in mind that BEVs like Dolphin & Seagull have much larger interior space than other cars of similar outward dimensions. Again, you are doing a disservice by just comparison Qin to ice cars.

This is a very complicated question
 
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