New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

broadsword

Brigadier
Which other parameters are better, compared to existing market leader products or their new products that are actually viable for production on the horizon?
(Wh/kg, life cycle, etc?)
Wh/kg, Wh/L, -30 ˚C and 100 ˚C operating range, and non-flammable, good life cycles(3,000).
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Wh/kg, Wh/L, -30 ˚C and 100 ˚C operating range, and non-flammable, good life cycles(3,000).

A Wh/kg of... how much?

The life cycle range, non-flammable nature are already present in many existing production batteries.



The reason I'm asking these questions is because many companies put out news about how their new battery supposedly offers groundbreaking performance, but there's a reason they never enter production.

Taking "three minutes" for a "full charge" also doesn't mean anything if we don't know what size of the battery they're talking about. 5kWh? 20 kWh? Or 60kWh, or 100kWh, or more?
 

broadsword

Brigadier
A Wh/kg of... how much?
Up to three times the energy density of conventional 2D batteries, they claimed.

The life cycle range, non-flammable nature are already present in many existing production batteries.
They don't have that charging speed.

The reason I'm asking these questions is because many companies put out news about how their new battery supposedly offers groundbreaking performance, but there's a reason they never enter production.
Would be nice if every one of them fails to live up to their promises. But Prieto is claiming the manufacturing is simple and cost effective.

Taking "three minutes" for a "full charge" also doesn't mean anything if we don't know what size of the battery they're talking about. 5kWh? 20 kWh? Or 60kWh, or 100kWh, or more?
I have no information about that, but I suppose scaling up should not be too difficult judging by what others are doing to ESS.

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The key thing is they got it right at the cell level. Not an SME, but neither do I think it is a difficult technology to master. I guess it is mostly about engineering that requires only existing technology.
 
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mossen

Junior Member
Registered Member
Elon noted a few years ago that 9/10 of "revolutionary new battery discoveries" were complete BS. The 1/10 was often just a mild improvement.

As usual, what happens under controlled lab environments is irrelevant. The only thing that counts is commercialisation and mass production. Until we have something available to customers - at a competitive price - then it should be treated as vaporware.
 

BoraTas

Major
Registered Member
Elon noted a few years ago that 9/10 of "revolutionary new battery discoveries" were complete BS. The 1/10 was often just a mild improvement.

As usual, what happens under controlled lab environments is irrelevant. The only thing that counts is commercialisation and mass production. Until we have something available to customers - at a competitive price - then it should be treated as vaporware.
Applies to pretty much everything tech. The vast majority of supposed revolutions just don't mean anything because they are either very hard to scale up or use, worse in metrics that aren't mentioned, or just score very low in technology readiness scale. There is a reason why most engineers became less enthusiastic over their school and work years. Someone coming up with an idea in the garage and revolutionizing things simply doesn't happen in modern times.
 

ficker22

Senior Member
Registered Member
Applies to pretty much everything tech. The vast majority of supposed revolutions just don't mean anything because they are either very hard to scale up or use, worse in metrics that aren't mentioned, or just score very low in technology readiness scale. There is a reason why most engineers became less enthusiastic over their school and work years. Someone coming up with an idea in the garage and revolutionizing things simply doesn't happen in modern times.
I thought engineering would be fun and shit and here I am solving equations for 2 years.
 

pevade

Junior Member
Registered Member
Up to three times the energy density of conventional 2D batteries, they claimed.


They don't have that charging speed.


Would be nice if every one of them fails to live up to their promises. But Prieto is claiming the manufacturing is simple and cost effective.


I have no information about that, but I suppose scaling up should not be too difficult judging by what others are doing to ESS.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The key thing is they got it right at the cell level. Not an SME, but neither do I think it is a difficult technology to master. I guess it is mostly about engineering that requires only existing technology.
Well I'll believe it when they start churning out their battery. Ive heard of too many of these "revolutionary" battery technology companies fizzle out due to a multitude of issues.
 

Staedler

Junior Member
Registered Member
Up to three times the energy density of conventional 2D batteries, they claimed.


They don't have that charging speed.


Would be nice if every one of them fails to live up to their promises. But Prieto is claiming the manufacturing is simple and cost effective.


I have no information about that, but I suppose scaling up should not be too difficult judging by what others are doing to ESS.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The key thing is they got it right at the cell level. Not an SME, but neither do I think it is a difficult technology to master. I guess it is mostly about engineering that requires only existing technology.
This company has been talking about this 3D battery since it was founded in 2009. Its now 14 years since inception and it's still doing funding rounds instead of producing a product. They literally got a Series E just a few days ago (May 15). Series E! And they obviously don't have another product!

I've also done a search for articles mentioning them and in every one it's always "could show up in products by the end of the next year". Seen this in articles from 2015, 2017, etc. etc. Their own company website is filled with stock images and videos and no actual photo of their physical product.

Their press release said their results were "validated by a third-party accredited battery testing lab". Who was the lab and why don't they mention their actual name? Not to mention the only things the press release says was validated was the 3-minutes charging time, operating temperatures, and non-flammability. The Wh/kg , lifecycle, etc. weren't even validated!

They also tout how their production method is cleaner and greener because they are water-based. But water-based manufacturing of lithium batteries (which is what they're doing) requires oodles of de-ionized water. Research papers such as (
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) seem to just hand-wave away water procurement issues. So where is this Colorado-based company going to set up their pilot factory? It surely can't be the water-starved western USA.

Honestly feels like a scam the more I read about it.
 

KYli

Brigadier
Much stronger rebound in domestic auto sector as prices cut spur sales.
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Export ban on Lidar technology is under consideration.
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A very good year of auto exports for all Chinese brands. And it is just not EV but also ICE as exports to Central Asia, Middle East and Russia increases drastically.
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