New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

Gloire_bb said:

Note that premium brands (of a large car company) are only at the bottom of the table. The top is occupied by companies that largely avoid budget/affordable market.
We shall see, but I am personally not too frilled.

(not that this price segment has anything to do with me in the first place)

Click to expand...

Well, YangWang is its own brand and they will have its own dealer network for it. There is a lot of money being spent on building the Denza network of dealers in china right now. I would assume the same thing will happen with YangWang (probably concentrated in the big cities). BYD has to break out this mode as just being a cheap/mass market NEV producer. They are already selling their mass market models at luxury prices in other part of the world. I feel like at home, they are almost getting discriminated against or the market is too competitive. The way for them to attract that Tesla/NIO crowd is by adding Seal/Sea Lion to their lineup and adding luxury brand on top of that.

They are going to come out with 5 and 6 seat SUVs next year in the Denza brand. If you think this year is hectic, you will be really surprised by all the rumors coming out about next year. They will work toward not giving competition any breathing room.

for example things like this

比亚迪秦plus dmi 将迎来全新升级，增加两款120公里版本，全面取消55公里版本的车型。

Click to expand...

continued product improvements are likely DM-i increasing to 120 km of pure BEV range would satisfy the need of your regular daily commute. I'm not convinced the need to continue to adding more DM-i models, but they are doing it.

KampfAlwin said:

Shown in this article:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

By the way that's not only the other issues.
BTW: The same author praised Chinese EVs

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

The comment section reads like it's home to @tonyget line of thinking. It's a doozy which is not really a surprise. But thank you for that review and link to those articles. I hope that Vinfast will take their time to understand the market and not just assume that glitz and glamor will persuade customers to buy their products when in reality its made of horse manure.

KampfAlwin said:

Yup, a good strategy that Vinfast(a Vietnamese auto company) didn't bother to learn when they entered the US/CAN market. Their cars are straight-up terrible despite having a luxury price tag.

Click to expand...

How many of these luxury vinfast cars do they sell in their own vietnam market? Most likely vinfast EV are just using Chinese batteries and parts. They are just like some of these Chinese cars 20 yrs ago that were not ready yet.

Bellum_Romanum said:

The comment section reads like it's home to @tonyget line of thinking. It's a doozy which is not really a surprise. But thank you for that review and link to those articles. I hope that Vinfast will take their time to understand the market and not just assume that glitz and glamor will persuade customers to buy their products when in reality its made of horse manure.

Click to expand...

While I appreciate your supporting for rising Asian car manufacturers, please keep in mind that it took 4 decades for Chinese and Koreans to even the odds with established players. And they are practically the only success stories of newly industrialized nations completing with established powers in the global car market. Vietnam barely has an automotive industry, and IMO there is no way in hell they could do in 10 years what China and Korea did in 40 unless they are superhumans.

Not to mention the fact that Vinfast is merely a side project of Vingroup, which is heavily focused on real estate. Real estate companies make for terrible automakers, judging from what we've all seen in China and even Japan. They may have a lot of cash, but they are just too comfortable with making easy money than to put their head down to work on R&D.

Again, I could be completely wrong. Somehow Vietnamese could be superhumans, and Vingroup could resist their temptation for easy money to work on actual engineering. But that's unlikely IMO.

GodRektsNoobs said:

While I appreciate your supporting for rising Asian car manufacturers, please keep in mind that it took 4 decades for Chinese and Koreans to even the odds with established players. And they are practically the only success stories of newly industrialized nations completing with established powers in the global car market. Vietnam barely has an automotive industry, and IMO there is no way in hell they could do in 10 years what China and Korea did in 40 unless they are superhumans.

Not to mention the fact that Vinfast is merely a side project of Vingroup, which is heavily focused on real estate. Real estate companies make for terrible automakers, judging from what we've all seen in China and even Japan. They may have a lot of cash, but they are just too comfortable with making easy money than to put their head down to work on R&D.

Again, I could be completely wrong. Somehow Vietnamese could be superhumans, and Vingroup could resist their temptation for easy money to work on actual engineering. But that's unlikely IMO.

Click to expand...

It's all about corporate culture, They have a monopolistic thinking and attitude cause they were protected domestically. With no competition allowed and a small market then your business strategy is base on local thinking instead of having an international outlook. The Chinese are right to have TESLA come in with all the perks to spice up the competition and it works, they have the foresight because they believed that the local manufacturer are primed for the big time and need a further push to see which among them are ready.

wow, this is terrible for Tesla

直营的订单式生产不是字面意义上的你下一个订单，工厂那边才运转起来，而是针对主要客户需求进行有规划的生产，说到底产销还是不匹配。而当订单不足1个月的时候，往往意味着车企手上一定有数以千计的现车资源。

所以停产有啥奇怪的。

Click to expand...

真正需要注意的是特斯拉的进店量，从5月到现在我们测算特斯拉的进店量少了一半，现在和蔚来理想的进店量基本持平，这个可比其他数据可怕太多了。

特斯拉主流品牌优势在快速流失，明年掀桌子打价格战的可能性已经达到峰值了。

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

收起

Click to expand...

If store visits to Tesla has dropped this much, I can only conclude that it has completely lost its brand advantage in China. BYD is just moving way too fast. I don't know if it's BYD Seal and other models raising BYD's brand or just its complete dominance in the Chinese market.
Right now, it's capturing 30+% of NEV market with no one else anywhere close to it. On top of that, there is the domestic pride factor and the longer delivery queue (which brings the feeling of something in demand and worth getting in on). Of course, the foreign reception to BYD is also a huge factor here.

Aside from that, NIO's ET5/7 probably also had some negative affect on Model 3/Y. Same with Huawei brand and Li Auto. This is not an easy market. Tesla won't leave China. Huawei won't abandon auto market. But BYD now has all the advantage and it is moving faster than everyone else. Being the default/popular/safe choice means that you don't need to get in on price war. You can raise prices when everyone else lowers prices.

And more than anything else, BYD has also jumped in on all these international markets that other EV makers haven't gotten into. BYD Yuan+/Atto 3 demand is now going through the roof both domestically and in international market. There is a 10 months wait in Australia right now for Atto 3. The product speaks for itself. There are glowing reviews about how it performs above expectations. BYD Seal is getting glowing reviews everywhere. Dolphin and Song+ DM-i will be mass market models around the world. BYD will reach many markets that other EV makers simply won't even attempt. The fate is already sealed now in the Latin American market. And soon, it will be the case in ASEAN countries.

tphuang said:

wow, this is terrible for Tesla


If store visits to Tesla has dropped this much, I can only conclude that it has completely lost its brand advantage in China. BYD is just moving way too fast. I don't know if it's BYD Seal and other models raising BYD's brand or just its complete dominance in the Chinese market.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1605141178873090051

Right now, it's capturing 30+% of NEV market with no one else anywhere close to it. On top of that, there is the domestic pride factor and the longer delivery queue (which brings the feeling of something in demand and worth getting in on). Of course, the foreign reception to BYD is also a huge factor here.

Click to expand...

The high profile crash a few months ago most likely didn't do Tesla any favours, full self driving doesn't seem to be a main selling point for Chinese consumers, so any mishapy involving it will sting twice as hard. They'd rather have a car that gets all the basics right, which BYD clearly have done here.

tphuang said:

If store visits to Tesla has dropped this much, I can only conclude that it has completely lost its brand advantage in China. BYD is just moving way too fast. I don't know if it's BYD Seal and other models raising BYD's brand or just its complete dominance in the Chinese market.

Click to expand...

It always amazed me how Tesla doesn't care about renewing their models at all. Model S got a minimal facelift once, and that's it.
For 10 years, when established auto simply couldn't believe something happened, they simply had no competition and could get away with it.
But even model Y is now kinda old in the teeth.

Anyone notice the Electric Viking hasn't had many videos on Chinese EVs lately? I guess the pressure from the anti-China crowd has gotten to him. For Westerners who claim they're for the truth, they certainly are fully in on hiding it.