New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

4Runner

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South Korean economy is more of an extension of the American economy than Japan or Australia. Its industries are mostly downstream manufacturing businesses, including semiconductor and electronics manufacturing. Japan has many upstream high-tech firms in the entire semiconductor industry and others. US certainly controls many upstream segments and IPs. Therefore, the SK economy is very vulnerable to a whole-eco-system manufacturing super power a.k.a. China.

The only industry that SK has obvious advantages is semiconductor. But the key factors are not invented or even controlled by the Koreans, rather they reside in US or Europe or Japan.

From ship-building to petro-chemical to semiconductor, China is slowly but surely catching up. Without ASML's EUV or Japan's upstream materials or US enabling tech such as EDA, China may not be able to close the gap in bleeding edge wafer fab. But China does not have to "kill" SK economy per se. When China brings 14nm~7nm parts into mainstream commercial yields, SK would be biggest loser, before Japan and/or US.

The primary reason BYD has stepped into the 2nd place in EV battery is due to China's latest EV policies. With by far the largest home market and government open-pocket support, the lead by CATL and BYD will only be widening vis-a-vis Korean companies.

In summary, unless there is a miracle growth spurt in NA markets, there will be no hope for Korean, Japanese or even American car companies (outside Tesla) to catch up with the main Chinese EV companies for the foreseeable future. There are always noises from Korean/Japanese/American media with FUD in EV eco-system. The reality is brutally bleak to them. The game is almost over. It is China+Tesla. BBA are very questionable in their leadership capabilities if they would ever learn from the China market. So I would give Germany 50/50 chance to catch up, but certainly not as dominant as BBA have been in the ICE markets.

I already popped up my Champaign bottle.
 

tphuang

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South Korean economy is more of an extension of the American economy than Japan or Australia. Its industries are mostly downstream manufacturing businesses, including semiconductor and electronics manufacturing. Japan has many upstream high-tech firms in the entire semiconductor industry and others. US certainly controls many upstream segments and IPs. Therefore, the SK economy is very vulnerable to a whole-eco-system manufacturing super power a.k.a. China.

The only industry that SK has obvious advantages is semiconductor. But the key factors are not invented or even controlled by the Koreans, rather they reside in US or Europe or Japan.

From ship-building to petro-chemical to semiconductor, China is slowly but surely catching up. Without ASML's EUV or Japan's upstream materials or US enabling tech such as EDA, China may not be able to close the gap in bleeding edge wafer fab. But China does not have to "kill" SK economy per se. When China brings 14nm~7nm parts into mainstream commercial yields, SK would be biggest loser, before Japan and/or US.

The primary reason BYD has stepped into the 2nd place in EV battery is due to China's latest EV policies. With by far the largest home market and government open-pocket support, the lead by CATL and BYD will only be widening vis-a-vis Korean companies.

In summary, unless there is a miracle growth spurt in NA markets, there will be no hope for Korean, Japanese or even American car companies (outside Tesla) to catch up with the main Chinese EV companies for the foreseeable future. There are always noises from Korean/Japanese/American media with FUD in EV eco-system. The reality is brutally bleak to them. The game is almost over. It is China+Tesla. BBA are very questionable in their leadership capabilities if they would ever learn from the China market. So I would give Germany 50/50 chance to catch up, but certainly not as dominant as BBA have been in the ICE markets.

I already popped up my Champaign bottle.

what are you talking about? Do you want to see SK's trade with China vs these other countries? SK and Japan in the future depends on China regardless of whether they like it or not. SK right now is entirely reliant on Chinese supply chain, which is why they hated the recent inflation reduction act.
 

4Runner

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what are you talking about? Do you want to see SK's trade with China vs these other countries? SK and Japan in the future depends on China regardless of whether they like it or not. SK right now is entirely reliant on Chinese supply chain, which is why they hated the recent inflation reduction act.
I am talking about eco-system and supply-chain. The overwhelming surplus that SK enjoyed before 2022 was inside the semiconductor eco-system, as a seller, NOT an upstream dependent. When financial media talk about Korean dependence on China, it is predominantly TAM oriented, not sourcing oriented, extremely particularly acute in the entire semiconductor eco-system. When Xi recently emphasized the whole-nation-system approach to semi, the Koreans got the message. Not mistake about that. But in market replacement, not upstream dependency.
 

luosifen

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2022-09-11 12:31:30Xinhua Editor : Zhang Dongfang
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China's installed capacity of power batteries registered rapid growth in August amid the boom of the country's new energy vehicle (NEV) market, industry data showed.
Last month, the installed capacity of power batteries for NEVs rose by 121 percent, year on year, to a total of 27.8 gigawatt-hours (GWh), according to the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers.
Specifically, about 17.2 GWh of lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries were installed in NEVs, up 138.6 percent from a year earlier, accounting for 62 percent of the monthly total.
According to the association, China's NEV market continued to maintain growth momentum in August, with sales doubling over August 2021 to 666,600 units.
 

henrik

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Huawei has two NEV joint ventures. One is with the automaker Changan and the battery maker CATL, and the brand of this company is called Avatr. However, Huawei's main NEV joint venture is with the automaker Seres Group, they form a company called Aito. The first vehicle of the company, Aito M5, uses Huawei's HarmonyOS operating system. Below are some information about M5.
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Seres with headquarters in the US, could be a risk for Huawei. Is this a new company?
 

tphuang

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Seres with headquarters in the US, could be a risk for Huawei. Is this a new company?
The company that produces for Huawei in this case is sokon. Everything is in china. I see a lot of issues with huawei's nev efforts, but this is not one of them


This is quite illustrative of how important giga Shanghai is for Tesla. They produce more model y at Shanghai than their total production at all the other factories.
 

sndef888

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Sokon recently changed name to Seres, and I believe Seres in the USA is some shell company for Sokon (Seres).

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This is so stupid. Carmakers are still changing their names to "western" names (like Dongfeng's Aeolus) thinking it'll make them high class when chinese consumers are in fact going the other way and prefer chinese names.


By the way, anyone know what's the shareholding of AITO? Wonder if Huawei is just a small minority holder or something like 50-50
 
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