I forgot to mention that the costs are expressed in US$/MWh.
New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China
- Thread starter supercat
- Start date
I forgot to mention that the costs are expressed in US$/MWh.
Germany is sitting on an incredible amount of coal relative to it's land area / population size. Coal was also a significant part of their energy mix prior to the current crisis, so I would imagine they already had the ability to expand local coal mining and build more coal power plants. With China being responsible for most of the solar panels produced globally (i.e. not a local business), there was probably also a political element to the choice.
YSG Solar says it's based in North America, so the installation timescales aren't fully relevant to Germany. Different regulations & amount of free space for installation.
That said, solar, like wind, seems to strongly favor specific locations; fully clear, level ground, etc. Wouldn't LCOE rise after the initial adoption period (all the optimal locations taken)?
Wouldn’t this be better discussed in the renewable energy thread?
yep so rough estimate: Germany installed 5.6 GW in 2021.
Solar costs $1 per nominal watt at utility scale. Let's call install free though it's not. So $5.6 billion in spending on 5.6 GW nominal solar. This is best case scenario.
But 5.6 GW nominal isn't 5.6 GW average. It's peak. You need to look at capacity factor C = (actual energy over given period)/(maximum possible energy over given period).
, so that 5.6 GW nominal install for all of Germany is actually producing 0.56 GW average. Coal has capacity factor ~60% in the US and UK, probably won't be much lower in Germany, so a 1.4 GW coal fired plant is actually producing 0.82 GW average.
You'd need to install 1.5x more solar panels as was installed in all of Germany over an entire year, to equal the average production capacity of a single coal fired power plant, at the cost of $8.4 billion over 1 year.
So this is why Germany cannot immediately transition to 100% solar. It isn't because of inertial, politics, willpower, etc. It's simply that solar's capacity factor is too low and building is too slow compared to just firing up coal. The German photovoltaic market can't expand by 50% within 1 year, it can't even handle installing all that, even if given for free.
Solar is a very long term and gradual replacement, and cannot compare to high capacity factor sources like hydro, nuclear or coal.
, the best-performing smart Chinese EV maker this year, delivered 9,578 vehicles in August, down 17 per cent from a month earlier and a second straight monthly drop.
’s sales plunged 56.1 per cent to 4,571 units, compared with 10,422 in July. It was the second lowest monthly sales this year, slightly better than 4,167 in April when Covid-19 related lockdowns strained the automotive supply chain and disrupted production.
delivered 10,677 vehicles last month, up 6 per cent from July.
So nio is finally on top. Quite interesting considering they have the most expensive cars
Leapmotor and Neta seem to be doing better, with 12,525 and 16,017 deliveries respectively. Even Zeekr rose 42% to 7,166 units
’s sales plunged 56.1 per cent to 4,571 units, compared with 10,422 in July. It was the second lowest monthly sales this year, slightly better than 4,167 in April when Covid-19 related lockdowns strained the automotive supply chain and disrupted production.
delivered 10,677 vehicles last month, up 6 per cent from July.
So nio is finally on top. Quite interesting considering they have the most expensive cars
Leapmotor and Neta seem to be doing better, with 12,525 and 16,017 deliveries respectively. Even Zeekr rose 42% to 7,166 units
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No big deal.
That's business.
Every day there is a new problem.
It is the unexpected problems that can kill the business, such as European gas going through the roof, then some more, and still going!
Problems that we can seeing coming, are not really problems at all. It is business, that is what it is.
ZTE had to pay a fine to the Trump administration. Huawei saw a potential issue. They solved it with a stockpile of chips, and the entire country accelerating the IC effort.
So what is going to happen here, with Chinese car companies and American chips?
We already know what is going to happen. Everyone is gonna copy Ren Zhengfei.
Order that stockpile of chips. With production capacity the way it is in modern factories, there should be no problem accumulating a stockpile.
Then allow the domestic Chinese IC industry to do its thing. Since SMIC is already at 7nm, that probably is enough to be able to handle whatever they need for now, when they need it. They do not need to wait for long, because the technical know-how is there, and the DUV machines are being delivered by ASML. Hehe.
Stockpiling of chips a solution for the short term future.
SMIC and friends at 7nm fabs a solution for the long term future.
That is what this tech war is all about.
Planning, execution, market share, advancements in IC products, and in know-how. China doing it all.
The United States response?
Ban them! Ban them! Ban them! Ban! Ban them!
Like President Trump is pounding the table with his shoe or something.
How about byd?
China's breakthrough in NEV materials boosts efficiency, saves energy
China's self-developed high-grade, non-oriented electrical steel production line for NEVs materials goes into operation in Qian'an City of north China's Hebei Province, August 31, 2022. /CFP
To meet the surging demand for the new energy vehicle (NEV) market in China, the country made new breakthroughs in producing new materials for NEVs with higher motor efficiency and less energy consumption.
A self-developed high-grade, non-oriented electrical steel production line, which took China six years to construct, was put into operation in Qian'an City of north China's Hebei Province on Wednesday.
The two types of new electrical steel currently under production in the factory can improve the efficiency of the motor by more than 0.8 percent, Hu Zhiyuan, deputy general manager of Shougang Zhixin Qian'an Electromagnetic Material Co., Ltd, told China Media Group (CMG).
"If each car drives 50 kilometers per day, 5 million kilowatt-hours of electricity will be saved per day by 20 million NEVs."
A view of China's self-developed high-grade, non-oriented electrical steel production line for NEVs materials in Qian'an City of north China's Hebei Province. /CMG
Ma Jiaji, chief engineer of Beijing Shougang Co,.Ltd., told CMG that "once the production line goes fully operational, it will lead the NEV industry with a new production process path."
The production line, expected to produce an annual output of 350,000 tonnes of the new electrical steel, will meet the needs of manufacturing around 5 million NEVs per year.
New materials for building NEVs produced by China's self-developed high-grade, non-oriented electrical steel production line in Qian'an City of north China's Hebei Province. /CMG
China's NEV demand soared in the first half of 2022. Some NEVs were sold from January to June, surging 129.2 percent year on year, according to the China Association of Automobile Manufacturers. The jump in sales for NEVs also supercharged demand for .
In addition, core infrastructure to keep NEVs on the road has been expanded, as the National Energy Administration announced a total of 1.3 million charging facilities across the country, and the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology also claimed over 10,000 battery recycling stations in China.
That was NOT my point. How about actually understanding what I wrote? I said, "Perhaps because the country's need for energy is urgent, and the dirty old coal plants can be resuscitated faster than solar farms can be built?" (emphasis added).
Germany probably doesn't have to build new coal burners; they probably have many old, retired coal-based power plants that they can quickly fire up, far more quickly than they can build new solar farms. This has nothing to do with the speed of building new coal plants versus building new solar farms.
Even if it did, why are you pushing dirty coal? Why are you so hostile to a clean and low-carbon energy source like solar? Because China can use solar to escape the fossil energy trap and rise to great wealth?
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