New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

pmc

Major
Registered Member
You are missing the forest for the trees. Tell me, how many Land Cruisers are sold each year vs. Corolla, Camry, or Highlander? That's even considering that most people that buy off-roader SUVs never actually take them off roads.

In wealthy countries off-roader SUVs are just giant toys. People typically have at least one everyday car, which has great potential to be electric.
Those Corrolla, Camry, highlander are mostly globalized products while Landcruiser is Japan export. thats why there is now 5 to 10 years wait for Land Cruiser despite not selling it North America, Europa, Russia now.
The word is moving towards shortages in parts and shortage in skill labor. its too much risk to drive around in car like Tesla unless there are multiple like in taxi fleet.

They are using Tesla since 2017 in rental fleet. this exactly it supposed to work.
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supercat

Major
Yeah, FCEV will be able to replace the areas where BEVs cannot. ICE vehicles will have a hard time in China in 10 years. If the infrastructure is all setup for EVs, there just isn't much reason to stick it out with ICE cars. Keep in mind that EVs are inherently just safer than ICE cars. It's just simpler with less area that can fail.
Talking about FCEV, here is an interesting discussion about the efficiency of hydrogen power:

He made 2 corrections about the above discussion later:

I'm not sure why there is still this argument about off-roader having to be ICE when BYD is going release a EV version next year. BYD does not make up bullshit.

On a separate topic, this is the market for > 300k SUVs and Sedans in China.
I think Denza brand will make a splash here next year.
Notice that there are quite a few top-selling Chinese SUV brands in June and 1st half, both in NEV and ICE, while BYD Song was the top selling SUV in the 1st half of 2022.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
offroad vehicles are sold in countries with relatively wealthy population. It is there robust construction, modifications, towing that make them desirable. since batteries are located under. there is no way protection can be provided like engine high up in the vehicle.

You agree with me then. You need a relatively wealthy population before off road vehicles sell. And a relatively wealthy population means they already have access to good roads as that is one of the basic requirements for economic transportation.


it expensive and 2 months wait for rear damage Tesla Model 3. it is highly unlikely body on frame vehicle will get such damage and will be out of action for two months.
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That is now. But given some time, the repair and spare parts will be readily available like we see with other car brands today.
 

Michaelsinodef

Senior Member
Registered Member
You agree with me then. You need a relatively wealthy population before off road vehicles sell. And a relatively wealthy population means they already have access to good roads as that is one of the basic requirements for economic transportation.

That is now. But given some time, the repair and spare parts will be readily available like we see with other car brands today.
We're gonna see mechanics and businesses pop up eager to be the vendor/company to repair people's EV's.

Basically, the market will adjust, so really no need to be that worried (ofc, the market for EV's needs to be big for this industry to grow and become cheap/competitive as well, something that should at the very least happen in China due to NEV's adoption rate).
 

pmc

Major
Registered Member
You agree with me then. You need a relatively wealthy population before off road vehicles sell. And a relatively wealthy population means they already have access to good roads as that is one of the basic requirements for economic transportation.
you need even more wealthy population to afford basic Model 3 Tesla. quality of road has no relationship with desire to have BOF vehicles. BOF ICE vehicles are more versatile and reliable over long term. look at resale prices. work from home hybrid model makes cost acceptable for BOF vehicles when you consider risk of damage on EVs.
4Runner insurance is less than Model Y.
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That is now. But given some time, the repair and spare parts will be readily available like we see with other car brands today.
Facts are there no globalized factories for EVs. they are mostly in high income countries and those countries will increasingly find skill labor expensive. do you think Tesla tires can be made in cheap factory?. Tires need synthetic materials from oil.
there tons of complaints about Tesla and those Tesla were used by city dwellers not subject to extreme condition how people Middleast use there SUVs.

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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
You are missing the forest for the trees. Tell me, how many Land Cruisers are sold each year vs. Corolla, Camry, or Highlander? That's even considering that most people that buy off-roader SUVs never actually take them off roads.

In wealthy countries off-roader SUVs are just giant toys. People typically have at least one everyday car, which has great potential to be electric.


You probably need to adjust your views on motoring in emerging third world countries.

For many years, decades, even, one of the most popular vehicles in Venezuela is the Land Cruiser.

Not the expensive land tank and cruiser that people think of when they see the Land Cruiser in countries like Bahrain, this Land Cruiser.

toyota-land-cruiser-fj45-venezuela1-1199x800.jpg

This Land Cruiser. The Classic Land Cruiser. The one and only FJ40. Even when the production of the classic Land Cruiser has stopped in most of the world and succeeded by newer generations, the FJ40 continued to be produced in South America for decades. With subsequent sanctions on Venezuela and so on, people are holding on to these vehicles. You might say that Venezuela is the capital of the FJ40 in the world. It is often modified into a van or a pickup like shown here. Since then what replaced the FJ40 as the most popular vehicle in Venezuela is the Fortuner.

Emerging countries are full of 4x4 models that you never heard of in the US. The Toyota Fortuner and Hi-Lux. The Mitsubishi Triton, Montero and Pajero. The Nissan Navarra. The Isuzu D-Max.

Of course, EVs can be made into powerful 4x4s. But its always the question of infrastructure, whether these countries can afford putting it, and whether they are price competitive with ICE. EVs are still very expensive outside of China, and China is still absorbing all the cheap EVs it makes for its own domestic market for years to come. There is the cost of the infrastructure, and the fact that in some emerging countries, gas is still dirt cheap.

Most popular vehicle right now in Brazil, for example is the Fiat Strada. This is a 4x4 Crossover, SUV, pickup with off road capabilities.

fiatstradar.jpg
 

GodRektsNoobs

Junior Member
Registered Member
Those Corrolla, Camry, highlander are mostly globalized products while Landcruiser is Japan export. thats why there is now 5 to 10 years wait for Land Cruiser despite not selling it North America, Europa, Russia now.
The word is moving towards shortages in parts and shortage in skill labor. its too much risk to drive around in car like Tesla unless there are multiple like in taxi fleet.

They are using Tesla since 2017 in rental fleet. this exactly it supposed to work.
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Once again, you are missing the big picture. You wonder why Land Cruiser isn't sold in US anymore? Because no one buys them. There is a reason why Corolla, Camry, and Highlander are global products, and Land Cruiser isn't. It's too much of a niche product.

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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
you need even more wealthy population to afford basic Model 3 Tesla. quality of road has no relationship with desire to have BOF vehicles. BOF ICE vehicles are more versatile and reliable over long term.

The basic Model 3 is actually an expensive car in the EV world.

China produces and consumes most of the world's EVs and I reckon the average EV in China sells for half the cost of a Model 3



look at resale prices. work from home hybrid model makes cost acceptable for BOF vehicles when you consider risk of damage on EVs.
The resale prices of EVs are actually higher than for ICE cars. There is a shortage of EV production and EVs are far more reliable than ICE cars with their thousands of additional components.



Facts are there no globalized factories for EVs. they are mostly in high income countries and those countries will increasingly find skill labor expensive. do you think Tesla tires can be made in cheap factory?. Tires need synthetic materials from oil.

That is not accurate. A single global factory for a car model is not efficient. Transport costs for a bulky car are expensive and there are frequently high import tariffs. So if you have enough sales volume, it makes sense to open multiple local factories to serve local markets.

And you seem to have missed how most of Tesla's cars are made in China. These Tesla cars are then exported all over the world except to the US because of high import tariffs. Tesla has factories in Europe and the US, but they are still ramping up production and barely produce any cars compared to Tesla China.

there tons of complaints about Tesla and those Tesla were used by city dwellers not subject to extreme condition how people Middleast use there SUVs.
I don't rate Tesla cars that highly.
Their build quality is awful.
The design is frequently revolutionary, so sometimes this is amazing but other times it is absolutely bonkers.


 
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