New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

FairAndUnbiased said:

Hybrids aren't that complex. Unlike an ICE car which need a complex multispeed gearbox and throttling engine management, a hybrid (Toyota in particular) typically only runs the engine at 1 speed (the most efficient) and uses a powersplitter with 1 side that always drives a generator for charging, and the other is a clutch that links mechanical drive to the wheels at high speed and disconnects it at low speed. Some poorly engineered hybrids (mostly German companies) keep the full drivetrain of an ICE car then add an electric motor on top. But the leaders in hybrids - Toyota and BYD - don't do that.

The advantage of a hybrid over pure electric is they don't need a large battery with the requisite rare and difficult to process metals, keep the existing gas infrastructure instead of spending ~500k to 1M USD per site on complex power electronics for charging, and uses the high energy density of chemical fuels for a much longer range.

The advantage of a hybrid over a pure ICE car is that they don't need a complex gearbox, have some range that is purely electric relevant for everyday driving, and have 2-3x higher fuel efficiency.

Even a pure electric car has some theoretical 'miles per gallon' accounting for fossil fuel used in electricity production and mining.

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Tam said:

Hybrids do have large batteries. Very expensive ones too. You won't believe the quote I got to replace the failed battery on my Toyota hybrid. I am pretty sure it uses rare minerals.

Also my experience in owning and driving a hybrid do not suggest the engine speed remains the same all the time. it will go up when needed.

Hybrids also use something on the brakes, but I guess EVs do have this too, which is used to turn back the energy from braking back to t electricity which allows the car to conserve more energy.

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FairAndUnbiased said:

Weird, the battery quotes I see are ~$1000.

The battery packs for an EV are much larger and more expensive. It's not even the same game. Tesla battery pack costs almost as much as a brand new entire Toyota Prius at the dealership and still multiple times a Toyota battery at the lowest.

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Both EV and hybrid use regenerative braking which recaptures the energy of the wheels. This is better than a regular brake.

The engine speed being constant is of course theoretical. In practical operation it does change somewhat. However it is true that Toyota hybrids just don't have a complex transmission

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Tam said:

I got formally quoted over $8000 plus labor for a Camry hybrid. Sold the hybrid instead.

Do you really ever owned a hybrid, much less use them daily for years? In practice a hybrid revs much like a regular car. When you need the power, the engine will rev up and give it to you like any regular engine would, except that the electric motor would also go and add to the power, adding to the acceleration. As for transmission, they all appear to have CVT. The problem with CVT is that in record its proven to be more breakage prone than an ordinary automatic transmission, and its actually considered a weak point even in Japanese cars of noted longevity.

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FairAndUnbiased said:

I drove a Prius for a few months and my MiL has a hybrid Ford Escape that I often drive. I never noticed the engine rev compared to my ICE Honda Civic which is fairly quiet yet the engine rev is very obvious when accelerating. I've also never heard of a $8000 battery on a hybrid.

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The MG ZS EV is among the first pure electric cars to get a 5-star safety rating from Euro NCAP. Under the MG Pilot moniker, it receives a range of Advanced Driver Assistance Systems (ADAS). All variants of the ZS EV get ADAS features like autonomous emergency braking, lane keep assist, lane departure warning, traffic jam assist, and high beam assist. Higher variants also get rear cross-traffic alert and blind-spot monitoring with lane change assist.

Additionally, there’s a suite of standard equipment on the ZS EV. All variants benefit from ESP, hill assist, tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS), and emergency brake assist, among others.

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Tam said:

The quote is from an official Toyota dealer, and yes, drove a Camry hybrid as a daily driver for years till the battery gave away. The battery pack itself was about $6000, but plus the additional including labor, taxes, and certain parts needed to replace reached around $8000 as the car is already out of warranty and is making drivetrain noises (my guess is CVT transmission and sensor issues). I hear Prius battery replacements around $3000 to $4000 for original Toyota but that's still far too expensive. Maybe the $1500 figures are third party and refurbed, but original Toyota parts its going to be more expensive. Even with battery trade in and labor compensated it will still be too expensive especially for a car that already has plenty of miles on it.

And oh I am fairly sure, the hybrid engine revs in a normal car way, and I also have a BMW with the M62 engine (4.4 liter V8, nearly 300hp) at that time. If you are going to move a car with a significant size and height like a Camry, yes, the engine needs to work. It is still a four cylinder after all, and a variant of the same 2.4 liter inline four used in the ICE Camry. The BMW V8 barely moves at all since even at low rpm, the car is already moving a bit too fast so I know how revving feels like, and incidentally both cars has nearly the same weight and size at around nearly 3,500 lbs. This isn't Prius light. For all its worth, Camry hybrid, with engine + electric motor both on the go with combined output, the car does hustle in a way similar to a V6, so its not a slow car either. (RAV4 PHEV is only out dragged by the modern Supra in Toyota's lineup.)

In hindsight, the car did cost me more than the equivalent Camry with the V6, and that V6 engine (GR series) has its own legendary reputation for longevity.

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FairAndUnbiased said:

we'll see. I do know that statistically the Prius is one of the longest lasting cars on the market with 13% of owners still driving it after 15 years, so it is clearly doing something right that ICE cars aren't. And EVs haven't been on the market long enough to judge longevity.

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