New Energy Vehicles (NEVs) in China

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
He is resting on the laurels of his father and grandfather basically. On the long run the company is screwed.

Just the other day that guy the Electric Viking on Youtube was laughing about a patent Toyota put out on pseudo-manual transmission for EVs. This just shows how clueless they are. They actually think people like manual transmissions.
 

BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
He is resting on the laurels of his father and grandfather basically. On the long run the company is screwed.

Just the other day that guy the Electric Viking on Youtube was laughing about a patent Toyota put out on pseudo-manual transmission for EVs. This just shows how clueless they are. They actually think people like manual transmissions.
Im probably one of the few that actually like ICE manual transmission, but for electric it feels kind of useless.
 

BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
For once I'm glad my country is slow in adopting new tech. I do love old and cheap ICE cars without worrying about charging
Same here EV will probably feel like automatic transmission with kick down but with faster reaction, It just feels good to put it back in 3rd or 4th gear and kick down the gas pedal to pass others on a highway, the more horsepower you have the more fun it becomes. Automatic never really feels reactive enough to me.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
I love the new tech actually, because ICE has peaked and peaked in a way that is ready for a huge fall.

There was a time for example, let's take the case of BMW, when 530i means you actually have a 3.0 liter six cylinder engine in it. Today, it means they stuffed a four cylinder 2.0 liter with a turbo to make as much power as that 3.0 liter six used to make.

So what gives? What gives is that this turbo 4 cylinder 2.0 liter engine is doing the work of a six cylinder, and in some cars, eight cylinders. You got turbos, variable valve timing, direct fuel injection, all these microprocessors reading from oxygen and thermal sensors, working off from fuel-oxygen graphs. You are talking of compression ratios of 10 to 11 easily, and there was a time when compression ratios of 11 to 1 are reserved for race cars. There was a time when a 2.0 liter four is doing only 100 to 120hp with compression ratios of only 8 to 9 to 1. Low then but the engine is pretty under stressed so it can last over 200,000 miles or more. Now there are cases when a four cylinder turbo is now making in excess of 300 hp. That's much as and even over V8s in the past. That's like a racing engine stuck into the hood on a car that is going to see much of the time, day by day, stuck in the traffic, going to the grocery or the mall, driving kids to school and back home, going to work and idling through traffic jams and so on. Those engines are burning a lot of heat under the hood and are cooking themselves to death gradually. So the question is whether these engines are going to last 50,000 miles, 100,000 miles, 200,000 miles, like the way bigger, six and eight cylinder engines in the past.

Compared to that, a large electric motor is surprisingly simpler, much lighter, much cooler. What you should worry about, is how long your batteries will last --- there is one expensive replacement bill if they don't. More so than a replacement engine. But with LFP batteries, it becomes possible for batteries to outlast a car. BYD is offering a replacement warranty for their batteries for up to 500,000 kilometers if their charge retention falls under 60%. Its because of this that if I were ever to buy an EV, I want it to be a BYD with an LFP battery, preferably the Blade battery. But I would also be okay for a Ford, Tesla or Toyota EV that has partnered with BYD or CATL for LFP battery.

Hybrid are also complex machinery. The whole hybrid set up like Toyota's --- I had a Toyota hybrid once --- is even more complex than your typical ICE or EV, and instead combines the complexity of both to make it even more complex. Not just more microprocessors and circuits than everything but if the whole hybrid battery pack goes, it will also set you off with a huge replacement bill that's worth more than an ICE engine swap.
 

BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
I love the new tech actually, because ICE has peaked and peaked in a way that is ready for a huge fall.

There was a time for example, let's take the case of BMW, when 530i means you actually have a 3.0 liter six cylinder engine in it. Today, it means they stuffed a four cylinder 2.0 liter with a turbo to make as much power as that 3.0 liter six used to make.

So what gives? What gives is that this turbo 4 cylinder 2.0 liter engine is doing the work of a six cylinder, and in some cars, eight cylinders. You got turbos, variable valve timing, direct fuel injection, all these microprocessors reading from oxygen and thermal sensors, working off from fuel-oxygen graphs. You are talking of compression ratios of 10 to 11 easily, and there was a time when compression ratios of 11 to 1 are reserved for race cars. There was a time when a 2.0 liter four is doing only 100 to 120hp with compression ratios of only 8 to 9 to 1. Low then but the engine is pretty under stressed so it can last over 200,000 miles or more. Now there are cases when a four cylinder turbo is now making in excess of 300 hp. That's much as and even over V8s in the past. That's like a racing engine stuck into the hood on a car that is going to see much of the time, day by day, stuck in the traffic, going to the grocery or the mall, driving kids to school and back home, going to work and idling through traffic jams and so on. Those engines are burning a lot of heat under the hood and are cooking themselves to death gradually. So the question is whether these engines are going to last 50,000 miles, 100,000 miles, 200,000 miles, like the way bigger, six and eight cylinder engines in the past.

Compared to that, a large electric motor is surprisingly simpler, much lighter, much cooler. What you should worry about, is how long your batteries will last --- there is one expensive replacement bill if they don't. More so than a replacement engine. But with LFP batteries, it becomes possible for batteries to outlast a car. BYD is offering a replacement warranty for their batteries for up to 500,000 kilometers if their charge retention falls under 60%. Its because of this that if I were ever to buy an EV, I want it to be a BYD with an LFP battery, preferably the Blade battery. But I would also be okay for a Ford, Tesla or Toyota EV that has partnered with BYD or CATL for LFP battery.
Agree I hate this new trend where a 1 liter block has to do the work of a 1.6~2.0 liter block, they just bolt on a turbo and other tech on it.
From what i heard from buddies that are car mechanics is that they give a lot of issues especially the Turbo and ECU.

Im planning to move back to Asia in next few years and i will probably get a EV over there if i need one.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Agree I hate this new trend where a 1 liter block has to do the work of a 1.6~2.0 liter block, they just bolt on a turbo and other tech on it.
From what i heard from buddies that are car mechanics is that they give a lot of issues especially the Turbo and ECU.

Im planning to move back to Asia in next few years and i will probably get a EV over there if i need one.

Worst even in the warmer portions of Asia, like the hot traffic of Bangkok, Jakarta and Manila where your car with the tiny block turbo is sitting there cooking in the tropical heat in a multi-hour long traffic jam.

If I can't get an EV, I would do it with a naturally aspirated ICE whose engine is going to be under stressed, until the time when suitable EVs become available. If not, I will live by with a ride hailing service, considering the taxes and the cost of a vehicle, the stress of driving through traffic and finding parking.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I love the new tech actually, because ICE has peaked and peaked in a way that is ready for a huge fall.

There was a time for example, let's take the case of BMW, when 530i means you actually have a 3.0 liter six cylinder engine in it. Today, it means they stuffed a four cylinder 2.0 liter with a turbo to make as much power as that 3.0 liter six used to make.

So what gives? What gives is that this turbo 4 cylinder 2.0 liter engine is doing the work of a six cylinder, and in some cars, eight cylinders. You got turbos, variable valve timing, direct fuel injection, all these microprocessors reading from oxygen and thermal sensors, working off from fuel-oxygen graphs. You are talking of compression ratios of 10 to 11 easily, and there was a time when compression ratios of 11 to 1 are reserved for race cars. There was a time when a 2.0 liter four is doing only 100 to 120hp with compression ratios of only 8 to 9 to 1. Low then but the engine is pretty under stressed so it can last over 200,000 miles or more. Now there are cases when a four cylinder turbo is now making in excess of 300 hp. That's much as and even over V8s in the past. That's like a racing engine stuck into the hood on a car that is going to see much of the time, day by day, stuck in the traffic, going to the grocery or the mall, driving kids to school and back home, going to work and idling through traffic jams and so on. Those engines are burning a lot of heat under the hood and are cooking themselves to death gradually. So the question is whether these engines are going to last 50,000 miles, 100,000 miles, 200,000 miles, like the way bigger, six and eight cylinder engines in the past.

Compared to that, a large electric motor is surprisingly simpler, much lighter, much cooler. What you should worry about, is how long your batteries will last --- there is one expensive replacement bill if they don't. More so than a replacement engine. But with LFP batteries, it becomes possible for batteries to outlast a car. BYD is offering a replacement warranty for their batteries for up to 500,000 kilometers if their charge retention falls under 60%. Its because of this that if I were ever to buy an EV, I want it to be a BYD with an LFP battery, preferably the Blade battery. But I would also be okay for a Ford, Tesla or Toyota EV that has partnered with BYD or CATL for LFP battery.

Hybrid are also complex machinery. The whole hybrid set up like Toyota's --- I had a Toyota hybrid once --- is even more complex than your typical ICE or EV, and instead combines the complexity of both to make it even more complex. Not just more microprocessors and circuits than everything but if the whole hybrid battery pack goes, it will also set you off with a huge replacement bill that's worth more than an ICE engine swap.
Hybrids aren't that complex. Unlike an ICE car which need a complex multispeed gearbox and throttling engine management, a hybrid (Toyota in particular) typically only runs the engine at 1 speed (the most efficient) and uses a powersplitter with 1 side that always drives a generator for charging, and the other is a clutch that links mechanical drive to the wheels at high speed and disconnects it at low speed. Some poorly engineered hybrids (mostly German companies) keep the full drivetrain of an ICE car then add an electric motor on top. But the leaders in hybrids - Toyota and BYD - don't do that.

The advantage of a hybrid over pure electric is they don't need a large battery with the requisite rare and difficult to process metals, keep the existing gas infrastructure instead of spending ~500k to 1M USD per site on complex power electronics for charging, and uses the high energy density of chemical fuels for a much longer range.

The advantage of a hybrid over a pure ICE car is that they don't need a complex gearbox, have some range that is purely electric relevant for everyday driving, and have 2-3x higher fuel efficiency.

Even a pure electric car has some theoretical 'miles per gallon' accounting for fossil fuel used in electricity production and mining.
 
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