Naval Helicopter thread

[rhino123]

Would the Russians risk exporting military hardware to Taiwan? Aren't they more concerned about keeping good relations with China?

Well... that was what the Russia are saying in the report. Obviously they are mixing up ROC with PRC. Because at the later part of the report they says something like the Chinese are actually operating Ka-28 and mentioned something like the Sov... which Taiwan do not have.

Anyway the report is confusing... never heard of China placing more orders on the Ka-28.

 

[tphuang]

it was clearly talking about China not Taiwan if you read through the article. It does have a lot of errors, but the order for 9 Ka-28 was reported a while ago.

 

[rhino123]

I was wondering, couldn't China develope and build their own Naval Helicopters, rather than keep needing to buy from Russia or reverse engineering France helicopters? If China was able to develope advance fighters and transport, couldn't they develope helicopters too (I know, they are from very different industry, though).

By self developing of their own helicopters, it will definitely help in their homegrown industries and make weapons and systems reliance to other country much lesser. I think China would not want to relive the time when out of a sudden all technical assistance and equipments are withdrawn when her relationship with Soviet Union deteriorated.

 

[lcloo]

China's Aviation industries were focusing on fighters and strike/bombers. Transport planes, both fixed wing and rotary aircrafts were not given priority.

Last year's Shichuan earthquake made the Chinese aware of the importance of transport planes and insuficient number of medium and heavy helicopters in service, especially those that are capable of high attitude flights.

They have a late start in serious effect to make their own helicopters, but recent news of co-operation with Russia and Europe in developing new helicopters are enquoraging. And this should provide the Chinese with technical knowhows much need for them to built the chopers domestically.

We will see the totally Chinese designed helicopters only in the next decade or two.

 

[Quickie]

China have ongoing projects on a few other types of helicopter but seems to be missing out on the type in the class of the Ka-28. With the experiences gained, it shouldn't be too difficult to move on to the Ka-28 class. Sometime I think China tends to be a bit too conservative in experimenting with new development.

 

[Ambivalent]

China have ongoing projects on a few other types of helicopter but seems to be missing out on the type in the class of the Ka-28. With the experiences gained, it shouldn't be too difficult to move on to the Ka-28 class. Sometime I think China tends to be a bit too conservative in experimenting with new development.

I love the over confidence of some on this site.

"it shouldn't be too difficult to move on to the Ka-28 class."

Kamov is the only firm building counter rotating helos, and has been at it for many decades. That experience will not be caught up quickly or easily. Possible, of course, but do not underestimate the value of a team of engineers who have been there and done that many many times before. There is an intuitive feel for the product that only time and experience can build. This is not easily duplicated, even when you have the product in hand. Ask anyone who has tried to suss out any modern BMW without a lot of hand holding from a trained tech.

 

[rhino123]

China have ongoing projects on a few other types of helicopter but seems to be missing out on the type in the class of the Ka-28. With the experiences gained, it shouldn't be too difficult to move on to the Ka-28 class. Sometime I think China tends to be a bit too conservative in experimenting with new development.

Actually, we have to ask ourselves, why no one in the world other than Kamov, which is building the counter blades system. Is it something that other finds troubling? but of course no one is pointing it out for whatever reasons.

Conventional helicopters are good enough without running into more risk. And I really think that China do not really need to build a helicopter that look like the Ka-28 (completed with counterblades).

 

[jackbh]

Why not just build a helicopter with conventional layout but has similar capabilities.

Does anyone know any advantage to use counter rotating blades that the Russians use?

 

[Scratch]

From a post I made in another thread a long time ago. It referred to attack helos specificly. But the main points are the same, even though they may not be as important for a naval utility / ASW / surveillance helo.

The biggest disadvantage of coaxial rotors is the complexity of the system because of the two shafts required, maintanance is also rather complicated.
But these helicopters offer great manueverability. They eliminate the dissymmetry of lift and don't have to wast power for the tail-rotor. Without the tail-rotor the design is more compact, and creates less noise since the main rotor downwind doesn't interfere with the tail-rotor wind.
On the other hand, those designs have a lower cruising speed because two rotors have more drag. That can be lowered by putting them closer together, wich in turn requires rigid rotorsblades to avoid one rotor hitting the other.

 

[rhino123]

From a post I made in another thread a long time ago. It referred to attack helos specificly. But the main points are the same, even though they may not be as important for a naval utility / ASW / surveillance helo.

The biggest disadvantage of coaxial rotors is the complexity of the system because of the two shafts required, maintanance is also rather complicated.
But these helicopters offer great manueverability. They eliminate the dissymmetry of lift and don't have to wast power for the tail-rotor. Without the tail-rotor the design is more compact, and creates less noise since the main rotor downwind doesn't interfere with the tail-rotor wind.
On the other hand, those designs have a lower cruising speed because two rotors have more drag. That can be lowered by putting them closer together, wich in turn requires rigid rotorsblades to avoid one rotor hitting the other.

Thanks a lot for the clear explanation of the advantages and disadvantages of the coaxial rotors. However from the point of view of a maintanence engineer, the complexity of the design is something which I believe is a nightmare.

I believe this is why no other companies had tried to made such system, not that they do not have what it takes (industries, knowledge know how, etc), but because it simply is not worthwhile to do it.

Also trying to maintain and repair such a system would be very difficult and time consuming, not at all desirable in wartime or in time of crisis.