Modern Carrier Battle Group..Strategies and Tactics

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Part II
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The development of the DF-21D may have contributed to the USN’s decision to focus on air defense ships (such as the Arleigh Burke Flight III) capable of ballistic missile interception, at the expense of such platforms at the Littoral Combat Ship and the DDG-1000. But as suggested earlier, the United States has also looked into other options, including SSGN launched cruise missiles and hypersonic strike vehicles designed to attack Chinese bases before the Second Artillery can launch the missiles. The United States is also, presumably, working on cyber, electronic, and physical means of disrupting China’s recon and communications systems.Nevertheless, some have suggested that the DF-21D has rendered the supercarrier obsolete. While it depends on how we use the term “obsolete,” it’s probably too early to make that claim. China has expended vast time and resources determining how to kill US carriers, which suggests that the Chinese military takes carrier capabilities seriously. Moreover, the number of countries with both the interest and technical capability to develop the system of systems necessary to operate an ASBM is probably limited to two for the foreseeable future, with only Russia joining China.

Still, efforts to diversify US capabilities surely make some sense. SSGNs, equipped with land attack cruise missiles, can pick up a great deal of the slack while remaining relatively safe from attack. Amphibious assault ships, the term the
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can ably carry out much of the “strategic influence” mission that the supercarriers currently provide.


Strategic Relevance


Just because China has ASBMs doesn’t mean that it will use them,
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. The point of the “system of systems” is not to use it, but instead to deter the US from going to war. Failing that, it is to deter the USN from aggressively using its carrier groups in combat. Sinking a carrier could kill 6000 Americans in a few minutes, the prospect of which could make the US President reconsider intervention in any dispute with China. Moreover, ASBMs and the other assorted systems would make USN admirals very leery about sailing its primary assets into danger.
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, and the loss of two or three would dramatically cut US capability to intervene anywhere in the world.


However, The DF-21D will suffer from the same problem as the variety of global strike weapons that the United States and others have considered over the years. A credible threat to kill a US carrier at range is great, but no one has any idea what will happen when the Second Artillery first lets loose with a salvo of ASBMs. Any medium range ballistic missiles (MRBM) launched could carry a nuclear warhead, targeted either at a carrier or some other target. Chinese leadership will have to count on very cool heads in Washington for the fifteen minutes between launch and impact. Much will depend on the extent of contact between Beijing and Washington during the process of escalation; if this process has involved multiple misunderstandings, then launching a missile could lead to a degree of escalation that China has not prepared for.


At the extreme, launching at a US carrier represents an enormous risk, because it could start a decision-process that would bring full nuclear retaliation from the United States. That China still lacks a secure second strike capability against the US (and would struggle, in context of a conflict, to safely deploy its ballistic missile submarines) makes the situation even less stable, because the Americans might suspect the PLA of engaging in “use it or lose it” thinking. Even if the US correctly assesses the nature and purpose of the attack, the destruction of a carrier could serve to commit the United States, rather than scare it off.


The United States also faces escalatory problems.
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that has dominated much discussion of US Pacific strategy, apparently envisions pre-emptive strikes against Chinese land-based missile installations. Such strikes, which make a great deal of sense from an operational perspective, represent a grave danger of strategic escalation. Again, China must recognize the intent behind US attacks, and refrain from reacting inappropriately, a problem exacerbated by China’s nuclear deficit.

Conclusion
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, not a sea-control weapon. It cannot prevent the USN from killing Chinese ships, only change the method by which the Americans do so. The use of such a weapon in anger would carry the potential for grave escalatory consequences on both sides. It’s difficult to imagine what, besides Taiwan, China and the United States might be willing to tolerate such risk for.


As such, it’s not entirely clear how transformative the weapon really is. It certainly marks an important contribution to China’s arsenal, and a harbinger of China’s growing power. It’s impact, however, is more incremental than revolutionary, especially in context of the steady growth of China’s other anti-access options.

One implication of the development of this system is the need for establishing a reliable crisis hotline between the US and Chinese governments, along with norms about how leadership will handle such communication in a crisis setting. This may prove a tall order for a pair of governments that remain committed to the public position that war is extremely unlikely.

Editor’s Note
: This article expands on the thoughts and ideas the author has published previously
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.
 

Jeff Head

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This article makes a critical presumption, which has never been shown...and one which I have refuted for years.

That is that the DF-21D is an actual functioning and operational system.

Saying it is does not make it so. Setting up some DF-21D launcher here and there does not make it so.

There has never been a full-up, live fire test of this system against a manuevering target at sea. Not one.

A system as sophisticated as this demands extensive testing and refinement. That phase of the DF-21D project has never occurred.

Until the PRC shows that they can reliably detect, acquiire, target, launch against, reacquire, terminally manuever, and hit a carrier sized maneivering target far out to sea, the system remains a Sun Tsu effort to use smoke and mirros to convince the US that a capability exists to deter the US from using its strength against the PRC in any regional conflict.

Once they can show that the system works in a clinical environment, without any defenses, either active or passive, either direct or indirect, and prove they can hit such a target on numerous occassions...then the PRC would have to begin testing the system in the realistic environement with EW, Chaff, and other defenses.

Again, to date, none of that has happened.

Until the Chinese announce that they are creating a restricted target range in the South China or East China Sea, or in the Pacific, and then start launching these missiles into it to test them, I will remain wholly unconvinced. Once that occurs, the US will also announce the advent of such testing and analysts will start to seriously consider this as a true operational system.
 
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solarz

Brigadier
This article makes a critical presumption, which has never been shown...and one which I have refuted for years.

That is that the DF-21D is an actual functioning and operational system.

Saying it is does not make it so. Setting up some DF-21D launcher here and there does not make it so.

There has never been a full-up, live fire test of this system against a manuevering target at sea. Not one.

A system as sophisticated as this demands extensive testing and refinement. That phase of the DF-21D project has never occurred.

Until the PRC shows that they can reliably detect, acquiire, target, launch against, reacquire, terminally manuever, and hit a carrier sized maneivering target far out to sea, the system remains a Sun Tsu effort to use smoke and mirros to convince the US that a capability exists to deter the US from using its strength against the PRC in any regional conflict.

Once they can show that the system works in a clinical environment, without any defenses, either active or passive, either direct or indirect, and prove they can hit such a target on numerous occassions...then the PRC would have to begin testing the system in the realistic environement with EW, Chaff, and other defenses.

Again, to date, none of that has happened.

Until the Chinese announce that they are creating a restricted target range in the South China or East China Sea, or in the Pacific, and then start launching these missiles into it to test them, I will remain wholly unconvinced. Once that occurs, the US will also announce the advent of such testing and analysts will start to seriously consider this as a true operational system.

Realistically, if events ever get to the point where the US is deploying CVBGs against China with the intention to inflict harm, nuclear weapons would not be far behind.

US CVBGs are used to act as deterrence against China, as in the 1996 incident. The purpose of the DF-21D is to act as deterrence against *that* deterrence. As such, uncertainty over its exact capabilities works in China's favor.

Analyses of direct US-China military conflicts are of little value. In 40 years of Cold War, where the US and USSR almost came to the brink of nuclear exchange, not a single direct military confrontation occurred between the two powers. Even today, as demonstrated by the Ukraine crisis, both Russia and NATO are loathe to confront each other directly.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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This article makes a critical presumption, which has never been shown...and one which I have refuted for years.

That is that the DF-21D is an actual functioning and operational system.

Saying it is does not make it so. Setting up some DF-21D launcher here and there does not make it so.

There has never been a full-up, live fire test of this system against a manuevering target at sea. Not one.

A system as sophisticated as this demands extensive testing and refinement. That phase of the DF-21D project has never occurred.

Until the PRC shows that they can reliably detect, acquiire, target, launch against, reacquire, terminally manuever, and hit a carrier sized maneivering target far out to sea, the system remains a Sun Tsu effort to use smoke and mirros to convince the US that a capability exists to deter the US from using its strength against the PRC in any regional conflict.

Once they can show that the system works in a clinical environment, without any defenses, either active or passive, either direct or indirect, and prove they can hit such a target on numerous occassions...then the PRC would have to begin testing the system in the realistic environement with EW, Chaff, and other defenses.

Again, to date, none of that has happened.

Until the Chinese announce that they are creating a restricted target range in the South China or East China Sea, or in the Pacific, and then start launching these missiles into it to test them, I will remain wholly unconvinced. Once that occurs, the US will also announce the advent of such testing and analysts will start to seriously consider this as a true operational system.

I wonder if they are able to test components of the system individually in such a way which can simulate a full test, but without having to reveal the full flight trajectory and use of all the systems that would be required in a full test, and end up giving away a lot of secrets such as trajector, SIGINT, etc, which would make it far less capable in real situations.

For instance, they can test the detection and tracking of potential ships easily enough: the USN operates CSGs in the western pacific constantly. During a USN exercise, they could quite easily test their sensors by seeing how long it takes to find them (without giving them any indication as to where to start looking of course), and then how reliably they can track them and provide datalinks back to simulated firing teams.

The ballistic missile itself can have its maneuvering and terminal guidance tested easily enough too, just fire it at a target but so the re entry vehicle will land a hundred or so km away from the designated test target (simulating the opfor's target having moved X distance from the missile's time of launch), and then see how well the missile's own terminal guidance can home in on the target and maneuver for a kill. This can all be tested by firing inland rather than out to sea.

The only thing which can't be tested, is the movement of the opfor ship during terminal phase and the associated minute maneuvering and maintaining target lock of the RV and its terminal guidance. However it's worth considering just how far a ship can move once the hypersonic RV is in terminal stage anyway.


Overall, imho, while there needs to be skepticism regarding the lack of high profile tests, I think we should also consider that the PLA will likely seek to avoid high profile tests, and rather evaluate the system's independent mechanisms in as low profile but most realistic way as possible. The only thing that can't be realistically tested against a land target, is the problem of the moving target.

Other things, such resistance against EW, decoys, etc, will likely be tested inland further on later as the system becomes more mature, and obviously, we'll never know if tests under such conditions occur given PLA's opacity and the limitations of the occasional google earth photo of a ballistic missile test site.

----

Personally, I see the "AShBM" as two systems: the C4ISR infrastructure and sensors that detects, tracks, cues, and datalinks with the AShBM, and the AShBM itself.
The former, I think would be a PLAN version of the USN's "Broad Area Maritime Surveillance," but focused mostly only on the western pacific and brings in a greater variety of sensors than only UAVs. This C4ISR system will obviously be able to support other weapons systems such as long range AShMs, strike fighters, and PLAN task forces operating in westpac as well.
AShBM on the other hand, merely takes advantage of the C4ISR infrastructure, and its effectiveness depends both on C4ISR support during ballistic flight and midcourse guidance, as well as how competently its own RV can detect, track, and maneuver onto a (relatively) slow moving target.
 
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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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Regarding the article, its comment about china not being prepared about the consequences of AShBM potentially damaging or killing a carrier, could easily be reversed to the US not being prepared about the consequences of risking a carrier. It is understandable that the USN and US public has considered their naval ships (especially carriers) to be nigh invulnerable, and if such a ship is damaged or even sunk, it could potentially lead to reactions in the US which neither side has prepared for.

But that is one of the aims of AShBM, I imagine, simply to put enough doubt into USN planners minds that they will not as readily use carriers in contingencies. the US will naturally seek to counter this, either through longer range carrier aircraft or coordination with submarines, and anti satellite weapons to destroy C4ISR infrastructure, but then we reach a similar question: how will either side react if they start shooting down satellites, and how will the Chinese population (both in China and abroad) in response to any US attacks on PRC soil?

I think there is also a degree of arrogance in equating a PLA attack on a US carrier and a US attack on Chinese soil.


--

The author is correct in saying AShBM (if it works as advertised) is not a revolutionary weapon per se (at least not technologically), however it can be considered revolutionary in its capability. It literally flies over the strengths of traditional CSG defences (namely SAMs and CAP). More importantly, its long range and high speed of transit gives it capabilities no cruise missile can hope to match for years, probably decades, and places a massive area of water as potentially dangerous for CSGs, although this naturally confers difficulties in detecting and tracking targets as well.

AShBM is not revolutionary because of an incorrect notion that simply one shot can "kill" (whatever that means) a carrier, as often supposed in mass media. It is revoultionary because its range, speed and flight profile drastically expands the zone where CSG operations could put carriers at risk, thus lengthening the distance CVN strike fighters will have to travel to reach the Chinese mainland which presents its own complications due to necessity of ground based USAF tanker support.

This weapon can potentially cause the USN to diversify its long range strike capability and think up ways to counter the PLA's growing C4ISR assets, upgrade their own ABM system, and maybe even rethink the place of CSGs in a contingency involving the PLA's AShBM system altogether.
 
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Brumby

Major
Regarding the article, its comment about china not being prepared about the consequences of AShBM potentially damaging or killing a carrier, could easily be reversed to the US not being prepared about the consequences of risking a carrier. It is understandable that the USN and US public has considered their naval ships (especially carriers) to be nigh invulnerable, and if such a ship is damaged or even sunk, it could potentially lead to reactions in the US which neither side has prepared for.

But that is one of the aims of AShBM, I imagine, simply to put enough doubt into USN planners minds that they will not as readily use carriers in contingencies. the US will naturally seek to counter this, either through longer range carrier aircraft or coordination with submarines, and anti satellite weapons to destroy C4ISR infrastructure, but then we reach a similar question: how will either side react if they start shooting down satellites, and how will the Chinese population (both in China and abroad) in response to any US attacks on PRC soil?

I think there is also a degree of arrogance in equating a PLA attack on a US carrier and a US attack on Chinese soil.


--

The author is correct in saying AShBM (if it works as advertised) is not a revolutionary weapon per se (at least not technologically), however it can be considered revolutionary in its capability. It literally flies over the strengths of traditional CSG defences (namely SAMs and CAP). More importantly, its long range and high speed of transit gives it capabilities no cruise missile can hope to match for years, probably decades, and places a massive area of water as potentially dangerous for CSGs, although this naturally confers difficulties in detecting and tracking targets as well.

AShBM is not revolutionary because of an incorrect notion that simply one shot can "kill" (whatever that means) a carrier, as often supposed in mass media. It is revoultionary because its range, speed and flight profile drastically expands the zone where CSG operations could put carriers at risk, thus lengthening the distance CVN strike fighters will have to travel to reach the Chinese mainland which presents its own complications due to necessity of ground based USAF tanker support.

This weapon can potentially cause the USN to diversify its long range strike capability and think up ways to counter the PLA's growing C4ISR assets, upgrade their own ABM system, and maybe even rethink the place of CSGs in a contingency involving the PLA's AShBM system altogether.

War planners and strategist will contemplate these scenarios and their counter plays all the time - that is their job. The problem is that these are not stand alone events but will likely take an escalation path that neither party can or able to control. It reminds me of the movie "Wargames" and the computer simulation of all the probable combination of events and ultimately concluding the best move is not to play at all.

The second point is that the AshBM is untested and hence conceptual. Execution will be extremely challenging in light of the kill chain it has to overcome.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Registered Member
War planners and strategist will contemplate these scenarios and their counter plays all the time - that is their job. The problem is that these are not stand alone events but will likely take an escalation path that neither party can or able to control. It reminds me of the movie "Wargames" and the computer simulation of all the probable combination of events and ultimately concluding the best move is not to play at all.

Uh, sure, although I'm not really sure what part of my post it is in reply to. It's more like a general (though accurate) statement regarding escalation.



The second point is that the AshBM is untested and hence conceptual. Execution will be extremely challenging in light of the kill chain it has to overcome.

I've already mentioned how the individual components of the AShBM could potentially be tested in a way without the dangers of a full test at sea, and that the PLA will naturally be loathe to do such a test in the first place.

I'm not sure what you mean by having to overcome a kill chain, do you mean the AShBM kill chain? That is to say, detection, tracking via C4ISR, missle launch, midcourse guidance, terminal tracking, maneuver? Because I agree the biggest challenge is probably finding the carrier in the first place. If you're saying the kill chain is vulnerable to ASAT, EW, etc, I also agree, but those are challenges any weapon system will face, not only AShBM.

If by kill chain you mean that AShBM may face ABM measures, that's an entirely different matter, and it becomes a question of spear versus shield -- how many AShBM and ABM interceptors can be launched at once and what are the probably of kill for both? Similar to "legacy" scenarios of AShMs versus SAMs. That kind of development should be expected. Of course, the sheer potential range of AShBM still comes into play, and the relative immaturity of ABM measures compared to SAM/anti AShM systems are also factors to consider.
 

Brumby

Major
Uh, sure, although I'm not really sure what part of my post it is in reply to. It's more like a general (though accurate) statement regarding escalation.

Simply that taking out a carrier is not the end in itself but rather the means to something far bigger in perspective. Unless the contextual framework is known, it is quite meaningless whether the US would justify risking such an important asset or China would resort to such measures intentionally. Every asset is dispensable given the right conditions. Hence self contained scenarios are useful only to the extent that the bigger picture is ignored.

I'm not sure what you mean by having to overcome a kill chain, do you mean the AShBM kill chain? That is to say, detection, tracking via C4ISR, missle launch, midcourse guidance, terminal tracking, maneuver? Because I agree the biggest challenge is probably finding the carrier in the first place. If you're saying the kill chain is vulnerable to ASAT, EW, etc, I also agree, but those are challenges any weapon system will face, not only AShBM.

As you have pointed out, there are various components to the chain and each chain can be degraded through counter measures. The challenge is not just whether each component works but rather that they have to work collectively in succession and in my view it is far more difficult to execute than just the components of each part and hence in my view is the achilles heel.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Simply that taking out a carrier is not the end in itself but rather the means to something far bigger in perspective. Unless the contextual framework is known, it is quite meaningless whether the US would justify risking such an important asset or China would resort to such measures intentionally. Every asset is dispensable given the right conditions. Hence self contained scenarios are useful only to the extent that the bigger picture is ignored.

Sure, I agree with that.


As you have pointed out, there are various components to the chain and each chain can be degraded through counter measures. The challenge is not just whether each component works but rather that they have to work collectively in succession and in my view it is far more difficult to execute than just the components of each part and hence in my view is the achilles heel.


So you're talking about coordination of the assets? That depends on whether the technology is there to facilitate effective coordination, and also how well the technology and the people are organized to fulfill operational aims. They can test the former in a separate manner, but the latter will be more difficult, especially if elements of the infrastructure or command and control network are degraded in real conflict -- but of course that is a problem any extended C4ISR and strike element faces.
For that reason, I expect them to build redundancy as the system matures.

But I believe they can test the technological portion of their coordination realistically, either as separate exercises or an extended exercise featuring all parts of the kill chain (although again, they won't be firing the missile at a target out at sea). They can test whether sensors able to detect, track, and cue targets to missile batteries, whether missile batteries can receive the information and act on it in an effective way, whether the missile in flight can receive midcourse guidance/course correction via datalinks and sensors.
 

Brumby

Major
So you're talking about coordination of the assets? That depends on whether the technology is there to facilitate effective coordination, and also how well the technology and the people are organized to fulfill operational aims. They can test the former in a separate manner, but the latter will be more difficult, especially if elements of the infrastructure or command and control network are degraded in real conflict -- but of course that is a problem any extended C4ISR and strike element faces.
For that reason, I expect them to build redundancy as the system matures.

But I believe they can test the technological portion of their coordination realistically, either as separate exercises or an extended exercise featuring all parts of the kill chain (although again, they won't be firing the missile at a target out at sea). They can test whether sensors able to detect, track, and cue targets to missile batteries, whether missile batteries can receive the information and act on it in an effective way, whether the missile in flight can receive midcourse guidance/course correction via datalinks and sensors.

It is likely that test of the nature that you talked of are being taken. I think the challenge goes beyond merely detection, and coordination of assets especially just testing separate components of parts. A realistic test requires a complete spectrum of the chain being subject to the necessary conditions it will likely faced. This include live firing on a moving target subject to a suite of ECM's. Such a test as Jeff alluded we have not seen. In other words there is no proof of concept.

Participants in relay races spent considerable time on hand offs and we continue to see experienced team stumbles in this area - even at world class levels. There are significant number of handoffs between components for the concept to work at a realistic level. Imagine a dice with 6 faces and numbers. The challenge is not the probability of getting any of the numbers when the dice is thrown but in ensuring the numbers appear in the right succession.
 
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