Modern Carrier Battle Group..Strategies and Tactics

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

Don't forget that the satellite is moving with great speed so can develop its model of propagation over a large area also with great speed.

Moving at 'great speed' can be a disadvantage since the satellite's radar can only revisit a certain area once each orbit. Then you have the rotation of the earth. Finally you have the motion of the vessels themselves to account for. Its an immense task and China has its work cut out for itself. Maybe China can get it figured out. But they haven't demonstrated that capability yet. There are many variables they have to master.

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

The B-2 mission was to penetrate Russian air space and hunt for and take out mobile ICBMs.? The stated mission of the B2 was to penetrate dense anti-aircraft defenses. These were Russian air defense systems. Today the B-2 technology is over 30 years old as it was designed in the 1970's.

Since the Chinese mainly have bought Russian air defense technology and adopted Russian tactics in using this air defense technology, how is it possible that China will be any more successful in countering stealthy platforms than the Russians? Has China made some breakthrough in detecting stealthy platforms that give their air defense the confidence they can detect stealth aircraft? Can anyone enlighten me on these breakthroughs?

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

One possible way the X-47B could be used to counter the ASBM threat is to penetrate into Chinese airspace and then loiter near areas where the DF-21D would be launched. Upon detection of the launch by early warning satellite or even the onboard sensors of the X-47B itself, a long range air to air missile could be launched from the X-47B to take out the ASBM while it is in its boost stage and at its most vulnerable position. Any comments on that idea?

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

NikeX I guess you have preconception that somehow China is only good at copying Russian design You need to brush up on your knowledge about Chinese electronic One way of knowing the state of industry is socalled trade show Where electronic manufacturer show their hardware and China is no exception CIDEX is the biggest trade show of Chinese electronic


Today the former students (the Chinese) have become the masters. Chinese industry now has the ability to produce components that the Russian electronics industry (after almost two decades of no investment by their government) is no longer capable of either designing or manufacturing. The initial failure rates on the production of transmit/receive (T/R) modules for the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radars being designed for the Mikoyan MiG-35 and the Sukhoi T-50/PAK-FA 5th-generation fighter, for example, were so high that it would have bankrupted any western firm involved in a similar programme.

Not surprisingly, this year’s CIDEX show saw groups of Russian specialists going through the halls and looking for components that they could source out of China to be utilised in Russian-designed weapon systems. Russian specialists will point out that they are now at a huge disadvantage to the Chinese in two very significant respects.

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

NikeX said:

The B-2 mission was to penetrate Russian air space and hunt for and take out mobile ICBMs.? The stated mission of the B2 was to penetrate dense anti-aircraft defenses. These were Russian air defense systems. Today the B-2 technology is over 30 years old as it was designed in the 1970's.

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Was it? I thought the B-2's mission was to penetrate russian air space and nuke cities. I'm not sure how this paragraph helps your argument.

Since the Chinese mainly have bought Russian air defense technology and adopted Russian tactics in using this air defense technology, how is it possible that China will be any more successful in countering stealthy platforms than the Russians? Has China made some breakthrough in detecting stealthy platforms that give their air defense the confidence they can detect stealth aircraft? Can anyone enlighten me on these breakthroughs?

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I'm not sure anyone made a claim China will be more successful in counter stealth than the russians... but both nations have invested greatly in counter stealth tech, you can check ausairpower's PLA radar and IADS tech page to enlighten yourself a little.
Certainly there's no "breakthrough" which can suddenly make stealthy targets appear on your radar screen but newer IADS and radars in specific bands means you can detect them at greater distances and send fighters to intercept. We all read about how J-20 was susceptible to modern AESA radars and the like from places like aviation week. The same deal goes for all stealthy platforms.

NikeX said:

One possible way the X-47B could be used to counter the ASBM threat is to penetrate into Chinese airspace and then loiter near areas where the DF-21D would be launched. Upon detection of the launch by early warning satellite or even the onboard sensors of the X-47B itself, a long range air to air missile could be launched from the X-47B to take out the ASBM while it is in its boost stage and at its most vulnerable position. Any comments on that idea?

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That would be contingent on whether they have location of TELs from other intelligence sources and would have to penetrate the IADS in the first place... And another stealthy strike asset like F-35, F-22 or B-2 can do as well, so calling X-47B a "counter" to AShBM isn't quite accurate. but given the nature of AShBM and the sensors required to support it you cannot really call any weapon apart from maybe ballistic missile defence as a "counter".
But first X-47B needs to be show it has a combat radius of some 2500km+ as that's the given range of DF-21D...

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

Couldn't find Serb armor in the Kosovo War. I doubt you'll be able to find where the ASBMs are until it's too late. Plus I like these war scenarios where the only thing that is happening is one thing. Just like the F-22. Can't be everywhere to stop everything. And just like the F-22... they probably won't fly it anywhere where it might fall into enemy hands.

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

NikeX said:

Don't forget that the satellite is moving with great speed so can develop its model of propagation over a large area also with great speed.

Moving at 'great speed' can be a disadvantage since the satellite's radar can only revisit a certain area once each orbit. Then you have the rotation of the earth. Finally you have the motion of the vessels themselves to account for. Its an immense task and China has its work cut out for itself. Maybe China can get it figured out. But they haven't demonstrated that capability yet. There are many variables they have to master.

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A single satellite is insufficient. But a dozen of them would already make quite a difference.

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

NikeX I guess you have preconception that somehow China is only good at copying Russian design You need to brush up on your knowledge about Chinese electronic One way of knowing the state of industry is socalled trade show Where electronic manufacturer show their hardware and China is no exception CIDEX is the biggest trade show of Chinese electronic

The Chinese air defense systems today are all based upon Russian designs. This is a fact. Someday in the future China will be able to produce her own indigenous designs based upon her own requirements. In the meantime, the Chinese military forces are playing catch-up in systems and tactics

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

Was it? I thought the B-2's mission was to penetrate russian air space and nuke cities. I'm not sure how this paragraph helps your argument.

My argument is that the B2 was designed as a second strike weapon to hunt down Russian rail mobile and road mobile missile systems. (See references provided) This mission is not unlike hunting for Chinese ASBMs being protected by an air defense system of today. Only today this hunt can be carried out by UAVs instead of manned bombers and using precision guided conventional weapons. The B2 mission was first defined in the 1970s. Today stealth has changed to adjust to more sophisticated air defenses and remain a creditable threat.

"During the Reagan administration, there was a return to a strong counterforce strategy through NSDD-13. This included development of strategic weapons systems that were more accurate, more survivable, or both. Some of these systems eventually took the role of bargaining chips in arms control negotiations, although some, such as the B-2 "stealth" bomber remained highly classified as potential surprises in war. The B-2 was also seen as a counter to Soviet deployment of mobile missiles, which only a manned bomber could find and attack." See the RT-2UTTKh Topol-M for what the B2 was targeted against.

wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Integrated_Operational_Plan

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

The Chinese ocean surveillance system is dependent upon secure datalinks to ensure that everyone is on the same page. This is a tall order. Especially with an enemy saturating your surveillance network with decoys, false targets and against a background of commercial shipping.