Modern Carrier Battle Group..Strategies and Tactics

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

NikeX said:

If Iran can shot down stealth UAV RQ170 sentinel
Why not China with more sophisticated Air Defense.As I say before UAV is not magic weapon

The key word is "if". Iran says alot of things but Iran is short on backing up what they say. As others have said, why don't we wait until we have some evidence such as the wreckage of this drone before we jump to conclusions as to what Iran has done.

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I'm also still waiting to see concrete evidence of that Iran nuclear weapons facility to come out, claim by NATO intelligence. Now we all suspect that Iran do have a program going on for years. Now, my question is why just target Iran and North Korea, but not Israel? Don't all nation has the right to defend itself from nuclear annihilation regardless of govt. rhetoric?

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

NikeX,
Radar satellites see coast and islands, they know the positions of these costs and islands and their own position so they can start to make a model of the radar propagation conditions. Merchantmen and fishing vessels in lonely parts of the oceans report their position regularly and can be identified with radar return, enabling the same far from coasts and islands. In more crowded shipping conditions ships can still be identified by their position, course and speed so there too the propagation conditions can be estimated. Don't forget that the satellite is moving with great speed so can develop its model of propagation over a large area also with great speed. Now where is your problem with radar propagation?
You seem to forget that the number of radar satellites will be growing and an aircraft carrier cannot interrupt launching and recovering aircraft every time such a satellite appears. And even if she did the wave pattern caused by her sailing at 30 or so kts against the wind can still be seen.

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

Hendrik_2000 said:

Care to elaborate how is Sentinel different from X-47B in term of stealth . I just reply to the NikeX assertion that the answer to ASBM is stealthy UAV, UCAV

His vision is there will hundred of this UCAV traveling 1000 km with impunity inland and hovering at each of the ASBM launch site ready to fire the missile

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How RQ-170 is different to X-47B (from aviation week basically) "The design lacks several elements common to stealth engineering, namely notched landing gear doors and sharp leading edges. It has a curved wing planform, and the exhaust is not shielded by the wing"
Clearly a purposeful lack of attention to detail knowing they might lose a couple of sentinels.

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And unless X-47B has as range of 2500km+ (2700km is the range of AShBM given to us from a PLA general a few months back) it is no "counter". In fact even if X-47B did have a range of 2500km+ it still wouldn't be a "counter" because it's not actively denying Chinese C4ISR capability nor the AShBM capability to fire. Unless he believes X-47B will be specifically tasked to hunt TELs and sensor stations like wild weasels were to counter SAM duties -- but then USN may as well call in B-2s or F-22s to do the job. (I actually don't know which post he makes mention to UCAVs, if this isn't an accurate reply just take it as 2 cents)

Then there's the challenge of getting through China' IADS, and it's not like PRC is new to a multipronged stealth aircraft threat. So X-47B doesn't really change the game for the PLA air defences at all, it's just another stealthy platform.
So X-47B at this point in time, and for the forseeable future isn't a "cunter" to AShBM because of the range challenge. And even when if it achieves sufficient range it will be no more a counter than B-2s are or Virgina SSNs equippd with tomahawks are simply given the nature of the AShBM system.

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

US deny Iran down the drone saying they lost control of a Drone over Iranian air space. It doesn't really matter because the damage has been done. They just lost billion dollar of research. Now thing become interesting if the Iranian give the Chinese a peek at this marvel of engineering


A US official has denied Iranian claims that an American drone was shot down in the country's east, while Nato suggested the unmanned aircraft merely crashed.

Earlier in Tehran, state TV quoted a military source as saying a US reconnaissance aircraft had been shot down along the border.

The unmanned spy plane was violating Iran's airspace, it was claimed.

The military source warned that the country's armed response would "not be limited to our country's borders" for the "blatant territorial violation".

An American official, who declined to be named, said: "There is absolutely no indication up to this point that Iranians shot down this drone."

The Nato-led force in Afghanistan said the aircraft may be an unarmed surveillance drone that was lost last week while flying over western Afghanistan.

A statement from the International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) added the drone "may" belong to the US.

"The operators of the UAV (unmanned aerial vehicle) lost control of the aircraft and had been working to determine its status," it said.

There are around 140,000 foreign troops in Afghanistan, about 100,000 from the US, fighting a Taliban-led insurgency.

The latest report comes at a time of heightened political tension over Iran's nuclear programme, with speculation rife that Israel is mulling air strikes against Iranian atomic facilities, with or without US backing.

The news also comes as relations between Pakistan and the US hit a new low after 24 Pakistani soldiers were killed in an air strike near the Afghan-Pakistani border last month.

In July, US officials dismissed a report that a US drone had been downed over the city of Qom, home of supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, close to the Fordu nuclear facility.

The reports came amid worsening relations between the West and Iran over its nuclear programme after the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) issued a report it said showed Iran had worked on designing an atomic bomb.

Iran has insisted its nuclear ambitions are entirely peaceful, but prompted the US and European Union to agree tighter sanctions on Iranian companies and individuals.

Earlier on Sunday, Iran's foreign ministry warned that any move to extend those sanctions to block oil exports would double the price of crude.

"As soon as such an issue is raised seriously the oil price would soar to above $250 a barrel," foreign ministry spokesman Ramin Mehmanparast was quoted as saying.

Britain has also downgraded its relations with Iran following the storming of the UK embassy in Tehran by students protesting over the sanctions on Iran's central bank.

British diplomats in Tehran were evacuated following the incident and Iranian embassy staff in London were expelled.

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

^ hendrik, the RQ-170 is no marvel of engineering... it's a nice spy plane that's all.
Jeez even if the chinese got their hands on it they will not gain that much, the stealth technology is low end, it's not particularly big either. they might be able to glean some knowledge from the avionics and the way the US controls the drone but nothing more, don't exaggerate.

This loss of a sentinel is hardly a big blunder on the US's part given it's lack of supersensitve tech, and in a few years china would be capable of producing a similar aircraft if they haven't already anyway.

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

Bltizo said:

^ hendrik, the RQ-170 is no marvel of engineering... it's a nice spy plane that's all.
Jeez even if the chinese got their hands on it they will not gain that much, the stealth technology is low end, it's not particularly big either. they might be able to glean some knowledge from the avionics and the way the US controls the drone but nothing more, don't exaggerate.

This loss of a sentinel is hardly a big blunder on the US's part given it's lack of supersensitve tech, and in a few years china would be capable of producing a similar aircraft if they haven't already anyway.

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You apparently didn't get my sarcasm No it is still goldmine the Chinese couldn't care less about the stealth .What they would like to get their hand on is the data link!. That could unlock all kind of information plus they get info how to unlock secure communication. Plus they can learn how to jammed that little spy in the sky

If the news is true. off course they will change their code

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

Hendrik_2000 said:

Click the link that I provide look stealthy to me it has picture in it . As they say stealth is 80% shape

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There are numerous characteristics of newer stealth tech shape that do not exist on the RQ-170. Leading edges, the curve of the forward edges, landing gear and bay doors, etc. In addition, the material and various manners in which the material can be charged while in flight.

No, Hendrick, the RQ-170 was designed precisely with earlier levels of stealth, already well known, so as not to compromise newer techs if any were lost.

In addition, the electronics and comms on that aircraft, like the predator and reaper are fairly straight forward and not cutting edge for the same reasons.

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

Hendrik_2000 said:

You apparently didn't get my sarcasm

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No duh, you went on about how the UAV was so stealthy like X-47B there was no reason to think you were sarcastic.

No it is still goldmine the Chinese couldn't care less about the stealth .What they would like to get their hand on is the data link!. That could unlock all kind of information plus they get info how to unlock secure communication. Plus they can learn how to jammed that little spy in the sky

If the news is true. off course they will change their code

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A goldmine? Probably not -- not like the EP-3 about a decade back. Useful? Definitely

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

If the Iranians shoot this drone down, do you think that they will share its useful secrets with China, like probably the Pakistani did with the tail rotor of the stealth-helicopter?

Re: The End of the Carrier Age?

Jeff Head said:

There are numerous characteristics of newer stealth tech shape that do not exist on the RQ-170. Leading edges, the curve of the forward edges, landing gear and bay doors, etc. In addition, the material and various manners in which the material can be charged while in flight.

No, Hendrick, the RQ-170 was designed precisely with earlier levels of stealth, already well known, so as not to compromise newer techs if any were lost.

In addition, the electronics and comms on that aircraft, like the predator and reaper are fairly straight forward and not cutting edge for the same reasons.

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This UAV is in the front line of any hotspot in the world from North Korea to Iran all the way to Pakistan.

Yes this is the same UAV that spot Osama bin Laden walking in the walled compound. The use of this UAV is wide spread

First spotted in Afghanistan in 2007 so fairly new definitely a big blow to the US intelligence

This is what David Axe has to say about RQ 170

The RQ-170 is a moderately stealthy flying-wing drone designed and built in limited numbers by Lockheed Martin sometime in the last decade. The fighter-size robot aircraft was first photographed at Kandahar Air Field in southern Afghanistan in 2007. The Air Force confirmed its existence in 2009, but has released few specifications.

Apparently fitted with video cameras and data links, the jet-powered RQ-170 provided surveillance during the raid to kill Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan in May. The drone has also reportedly been spotted in South Korea. Analysts believe the RQ-170 has been flying missions over both North Korea and Iran, possibly in order to gather intelligence on nuclear facilities.