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BoraTas

BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
Do you remember peace-loving Trump administration's cruise missile strikes against Syria? It was for Assad using chemical weapons. It turned out that it was ISIS. The American claim made no sense in the first place. Assad was already winning by that point so there was absolutely no reason for him to use chemical weapons and draw international reaction.

It is amazing how beneficial ISIS was for Israel and the USA. In Muslim countries, there are conspiracy theories about ISIS being an American and Israeli creation. I used to dismiss them until the last few months. Not anymore...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1760727877354414316
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
BoraTas said:
Do you remember peace-loving Trump administration's cruise missile strikes against Syria? It was for Assad using chemical weapons. It turned out that it was ISIS. The American claim made no sense in the first place. Assad was already winning by that point so there was absolutely no reason for him to use chemical weapons and draw international reaction.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1760727877354414316
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Damage is done. Of course the usual suspects will be like “at least we are open about our mistakes”.
 
A

Africablack

Junior Member
Registered Member
Bellum_Romanum said:
Where was your Global South when China was under attack in the 1950's during the Korean War? The cold war vs Soviet Union/U.S. and her vassals? Lol your demand is so cringe inducing that it starts to come off like a tantrum from a person with a myopic view of the world; and that sees the world first and foremost through the lense of western lense. As if to say and validate the west claims that as horrid as colonization was to the world; it was a necessary evil to bring forth civilization and order to an otherwise chaotic and uncivilized barbaric world. Your pedantic lecturing on China must do this or that or else I am interpreting as that China must act in accordance to the idealized values of the west otherwise your assumptions of China = barbarian horde is justified.
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I'm not lecturing, I'm saying that arrogance is misplaced. Everything else you're saying is asscheeks.
 
Randomuser

Randomuser

Senior Member
Registered Member
BoraTas said:
Do you remember peace-loving Trump administration's cruise missile strikes against Syria? It was for Assad using chemical weapons. It turned out that it was ISIS. The American claim made no sense in the first place. Assad was already winning by that point so there was absolutely no reason for him to use chemical weapons and draw international reaction.

It is amazing how beneficial ISIS was for Israel and the USA. In Muslim countries, there are conspiracy theories about ISIS being an American and Israeli creation. I used to dismiss them until the last few months. Not anymore...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1760727877354414316
Click to expand...
Anyone played Assassin's Creed 2 brotherhood? In that game there was this crazy religious cult that claimed to be descendants of Romans and were punishing people for some divine reason. However it turns out their leaders were just paid off to do the bidding of the corrupt Popes family.

That's what I think of most of these religious terrorist groups or cults. They're just funded by the CIA to carry out US policy. It's not even a conspiracy. I mean it's a known fact the Taliban and Bin Laden were paid to cause trouble in Afghanistan for the Russians. So why couldn't they just do the same things with other guys?
 
C

canonicalsadhu

Junior Member
Registered Member
Africablack said:
I'm starting to think China's rise is going to be another arrogance super power that wants "lesser countries" to pay it tribute and it's putting up an act acting like like it's championing the cause of the Global South by acting like it respects sovereignty of others and speaking out against the West's behavior. You see how dumb that sounds? We're not stupid, we know China is looking out for its interests and it's not doing anything for charity but we like the idea that we can look to a power that treats people with respect. We welcome that and we hold admiration. What we don't want is another arrogant power that wants us to pay it tribute because it has guns and a big economy (that the world fuels). Thankfully, most on this forum and indeed in real life don't hold these arrogant views so we'll keep hoping for a peaceful rise and a new order of respect.

If, however, China gets taken over by a new generation of leaders that aren't humble and feel entitled because they never saw struggle then its going to be in for a hard time. No country is that powerful that it doesn't need the world, if you think power is only about how big you think you are then you'll fuck around and find out. I'll say this again; do not take the goodwill China has built for granted. Nobody will "serve" China strictly because it's powerful. That's delusional.
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I think one aspect you're missing is the role of ideology in the West vs China. A lot of western foreign policy is shaped by their ideological beliefs about "democracy" and "freedom". Their leaders see it as their right and even their duty to lecture, interfere, and take military action if necessary to spread their so-called universalist values. And no it is not merely a guise to justify other motives - just look at German leaders who have plunged their country into recession and stagnation in the name of fighting for their so-called values, or American leaders weaponizing the dollar.
The point I'm trying to make is that this type of universalist ideological obsession, which has been the basis of much of the west's foreign policy and behavior, is completely absent in China's leadership and alien to China's foreign policy thinking.
 
V

Virtup

Junior Member
Registered Member
Africablack said:
I'm familiar with what the west does, we're like you; we were at the receiving end of their brutality. China does well to avoid this, fair play. However, I'm talking about a few here who are adopting the wrong attitude. We don't want to meet the new boss who is the same as the old boss, we've had enough of serving. Nobody wants to be a tributary, vassal, or a colony. That time has passed, it's time to treat others with respect, strengthen ties and conduct win-win business deals, everybody goes home happier. This nonsense about the weak serving the strong is dangerous and doesn't do China or anyone any favors.
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I think you might be misunderstanding what the others have written. They don't really believe that the weak should serve the strong. It's just how things are and have always been, and the reason geopolitics exist in the first place. As much as I hate to say it, humans have always interacted based on the fact that might makes right. The reason nations are governed by laws is because they would otherwise be fractured and then prayed upon by others.
Arrogance and greed are inherent caracteristics of human beings (which can be countered by religion but that's one BIG can of worms I won't dare open) and no matter how nice a group of people currently appears to be, they WILL change as their strength improves relative to others. So if you want respect and sovereignty, you'll have to earn them through your own strength and power: rather than hope for a benevolent boss, YOU should become the boss (or close to it) so others don't dare mess with you.
It pains me to admit it but we're just chimpanzes with a bit more logic, that's how it has been since the dawn of history and how it will always be until something EXTREMELY drastic happens.
 
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