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Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
It's also not secret that Jiang doesn't like Xi either.

The biggest argument for Xi's third term is stability, but his policy initiatives in the past year had been destabilizing on multiple fronts. The same goes for his relationship with Putin. The biggest lesson from the history of Sino-Soviet relation was that ideology should be minimalized. I'm anti-Western, but I think the ideological bond between Xi and Putin based on their shared anti-Western worldview is dangerous.

Xi has also been campaigning on institutional reforms but the string of abrupt and sometimes insufficiently vetted policies showed Xi's success on this front had been limited. Some may even attribute the policy mishaps to Xi's overpoliticization of the bureaucracy.

Xi has always been divisive, and I've consistently been on the pro-Xi side. But now I would welcome a change in leadership. The benefits of Xi's third term no longer justify the cost of breaking the norm on term limit, IMO.
Lol you're salty because of the drop in stock value to some of the leading Chinese tech companies as if those companies are the raison d'etre for China's economic heft.

With respect to Putin/Russian relationship, how would you preferred any Chinese leader handle one of it's giant, and nuclear superpower neighbour as well as it's biggest commodities trading partner? It seems to me that you'd rather have China not sought out any partnership with Russia while it's under massive attack (trade war, technological war) from America. Being blamed and accused of causing the Covid-19 pandemic thereby damaging China's reputation, and financial standings in the world. Not to mention of being accused of perpetrating a very serious heinous crimes against humanity a.k.a. "Genocide" against it's own ethnic Chinese minority (Uyghurs) in Xinjiang. How about being accused of planning to "invade" a part of it's own territory (Taiwan) needlessly like China is somehow hell bent of usurping a territory for imperial purpose.

Your rhetoric sounds eerily close to what that Shanghainese academic/political advisor allegedly wrote for some publication advising China to essentially abandon Russia, and become subservient to the wishes and demands set by the U.S.

It would be nice to see or read ideas what could or should have Pres.Xi done differently with respect to the approach it made with respect to Russia and the important strategic areas of Sino-US relationships, including the economic domestic approaches that Xi has pushed for. Right now, you seem to have literally being shaken from your support to what you initially thought was a good idea because the time, and operating context for China isn't as drastic or dramatic as they are now. Which leaves me to believe that your support for the policies was tepid at best, and conditional at worst. Meaning that, your support is hollow because now that the going seems to look tougher for China and it's core leadership, you want to wave the white flag and give up.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Lol you're salty because of the drop in stock value to some of the leading Chinese tech companies as if those companies are the raison d'etre for China's economic heft.
You know, I didn't even consider that. God above am I glad that China isn't led by people petty, greedy, and short-sighted enough to make political decisions based on a stock market.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
It's also not secret that Jiang doesn't like Xi either.

The biggest argument for Xi's third term is stability, but his policy initiatives in the past year had been destabilizing on multiple fronts. The same goes for his relationship with Putin. The biggest lesson from the history of Sino-Soviet relation was that ideology should be minimalized. I'm anti-Western, but I think the ideological bond between Xi and Putin based on their shared anti-Western worldview is dangerous.

Xi has also been campaigning on institutional reforms but the string of abrupt and sometimes insufficiently vetted policies showed Xi's success on this front had been limited. Some may even attribute the policy mishaps to Xi's overpoliticization of the bureaucracy.

Xi has always been divisive, and I've consistently been on the pro-Xi side. But now I would welcome a change in leadership. The benefits of Xi's third term no longer justify the cost of breaking the norm on term limit, IMO.
Xi has also been campaigning on institutional reforms but the string of abrupt and sometimes insufficiently vetted policies showed Xi's success on this front had been limited. Some may even attribute the policy mishaps to Xi's overpoliticization of the bureaucracy.
Please provide any evidence to back this interesting claim. You can't be serious that recent policies made must make the forecasted impact within the shortest period of time, otherwise you'll consider the policies failures or less than desirable. Also, any of the policies passed went through the normal legislative process in the National People Congress, Politburo etc. unless there's been some drastic changes that I missed to read or learned. If so, please show the specific changes or show the difference in process compared to the Hu Jintao era.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
It's also not secret that Jiang doesn't like Xi either.

The biggest argument for Xi's third term is stability, but his policy initiatives in the past year had been destabilizing on multiple fronts. The same goes for his relationship with Putin. The biggest lesson from the history of Sino-Soviet relation was that ideology should be minimalized. I'm anti-Western, but I think the ideological bond between Xi and Putin based on their shared anti-Western worldview is dangerous.

Xi has also been campaigning on institutional reforms but the string of abrupt and sometimes insufficiently vetted policies showed Xi's success on this front had been limited. Some may even attribute the policy mishaps to Xi's overpoliticization of the bureaucracy.

Xi has always been divisive, and I've consistently been on the pro-Xi side. But now I would welcome a change in leadership. The benefits of Xi's third term no longer justify the cost of breaking the norm on term limit, IMO.
Nah. Xi should go nowhere. When everyone was sleeping at the wheel and speeding towards the abyss, he realised the danger from the West and worked to mitigate.

You find Me someone who wasn't licking West's boots and then we can talk.

He has made some tactical mistakes but strategically he has been spot on in everything so far.
As for the Ukrainian war, we will see. I personally see some negatives to China but also some positives. We have to wait to see if the positives will outweigh the negatives
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
What kind of leadership change are you suggesting?
The last thing China needs is an “Mikhail Gorbachev” or anyone who acts weak against the West as they do the opposite.
You answered your own question.
"If only we bowed to the superior West everything would be fine and then I can return to worshipping the West and buying clothes from H&M with verified forced-labour-free cotton label"
 

56860

Senior Member
Registered Member
Xi has also been campaigning on institutional reforms but the string of abrupt and sometimes insufficiently vetted policies showed Xi's success on this front had been limited. Some may even attribute the policy mishaps to Xi's overpoliticization of the bureaucracy.
You realize the results of reform only materialize after many years right? It's not a matter of enacting a policy, having it work its magic overnight, and waking up in the morning to a new China. Mr Deng did not live to see the fruits of his opening up policy. Likewise, Xi's institutional reforms of common prosperity, dual circulation and technological independence will not bear fruit in his term. Instead Xi has planted that seedling which future leaders will harvest. Honestly what a ridiculously ignorant statement.
 

OppositeDay

Senior Member
Registered Member
Given the current Western attempt to subvert and destroy China since the Obama Era. I don’t see a good reason why there should be a change in leadership at this critical decade. If the ideological bond on the West between Xi and Putin is dangerous then should China and Russia split relations again to normalize relations with the West? Should they let the West do whatever they want because it too dangerous for the US world order to change?

For the last few and several years, a coup attempt in Belarus and Kazakhstan, successful coup of Ukraine, continuation to expand eastward to surround Russia. Then you got Obama pivot to Asia, that is looking to militarily contain China not economically. The South China Sea didn’t start getting militarized until a year after Obama pivot to Asia. The emergence of QUAD to act as military counter to China.

What kind of leadership change are you suggesting? The West will not stop at anything less then suppressing China and destroying any technological foundation China has. Just a few months ago, a German Admiral said they needed Russia against China. The last thing China needs is an “Mikhail Gorbachev” or anyone who acts weak against the West as they do the opposite.

No I'm not advocating for a Sino-Russian split, but a cordial, pragmatic and less ideological relation is better. Sino-Russian relationship was good under Hu Jintao without Hu and Putin being best buddies.

I'd prefer a collective and predictable leadership with a less politicalized and more technocratic bureaucracy. No abrupt policy changes. No sudden introduction of political rhetoric that makes people fear for a second cultural revolution. More transparent policy-making.

I'd also prefer a leadership that tries to reach out to all major segments of the Chinese society, liberal included. Be a bit more socially progressive. Scrap the divorce cooldown period. Make lives of single mothers easier. Right now a sizable part of the Chinese society feel they have zero voice in the political process. No one is there to speak for them. That unhealthy. China should not be naïve about the West, and must stay vigilant against Western liberalism and NGO influence campaigns, but the party should also never forget its progressive roots.
 

FriedButter

Major
Registered Member
You answered your own question.
"If only we bowed to the superior West everything would be fine and then I can return to worshipping the West and buying clothes from H&M with verified forced-labour-free cotton label"
No, I didn’t answer my own questions. That is my opinion. I want his opinion on what kind of leader that person think China should be led by.
 
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