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windsclouds2030

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Registered Member
Such arrogant.
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If one peruses this article by Bloomberg News then he will understand why Blinken did jump in the Evergrande matter! :p :D

This article is quite balanced because it's written by Chinese staff, which I guess are the mainland Chinese.

Just read it on your own, I almost quote the whole article, only itemize it.

CHINA STEPS UP EFFORTS TO RING-FENCE EVERGRANDE, NOT SAVE IT

By Bloomberg News, 03 OCT 2021, Updated on 04 OCT 2021

- Beijing nudges banks to ease credit, support real estate firms

- Moves show China will put HOMEBUYERS ahead of bond creditors

- Evergrande is sitting on more than $300 billion in liabilities and it’s not just Chinese markets that are unsettled

- Evergrande Group edges closer to a MASSIVE restructuring

- Beijing has stepped up efforts to LIMIT THE FALLOUT, signaling it’s WILLING TO PROP UP healthy developers, homeowners and the real estate market AT THE EXPENSE of GLOBAL BONDHOLDERS.

- In the last week alone, Chinese authorities have dispatched top financial regulators to nudge the country’s massive banks to ease credit for homebuyers and support the property sector. They also bought out part of Evergrande’s stake in a struggling bank to limit contagion. The central bank meanwhile has pumped 790 billion yuan ($123 billion) into the financial system over 10 days to ease liquidity.

- The moves underscore that China will do everything it can to RING-FENCE Evergrande, while showing little interest in a direct bailout of the developer that has roiled global markets for weeks. That doesn’t bode well for bondholders -- both onshore and abroad -- looking for some kind of rescue from the Chinese government.

- “The FIRST OBLIGATION is going to make sure that HOMEOWNERS who bought those homes take delivery and are made whole,” said Marathon Asset Management Chief Executive Officer Bruce Richards. “At the very end of the pecking order are offshore bondholders.”

- For China, the risk of contagion far outweighs any potential damage from an Evergrande collapse on its own. Though Evergrande is one of the largest developers in China, it accounts for just 4% of sales in the country. A run on property firms in the wake of an Evergrande failure threatens to destabilize an industry that accounts for 29% of China’s economy, according to new research from Harvard University economist Ken Rogoff.

- Already, developers such as Sunac China Holdings Ltd. and Guangzhou R&F Properties Co. have plunged in trading, while their bond yields have soared. Some 12 real estate companies have reported bond defaults in the first half of this year, amounting to 19 billion yuan, according to Moody’s Investors Service.

- Evergrande and its property services arm were halted in Hong Kong stock trading pending an announcement on a “major transaction,” the developer said Monday in a stock exchange filing.

- Hopson Development Holdings Ltd. plans to acquire a 51% stake in Evergrande’s property services unit, according to Chinese financial news platform Cailian, citing unidentified people.

- “A DISORDERLY default of Evergrande is UNLIKELY because of the broad-based risk it presents to a large amount of the Chinese population,” said Alejandra Grindal, chief economist at Ned Davis Research Inc. “The government is probably less concerned about restructuring the offshore debt.”

- Homebuyers already face the threat of DECLINING PRICES after years of gains. Measures of price growth, housing starts and sales have moderated significantly in recent months. Evergrande’s sales alone probably plunged 93% in September from a year earlier

- Beijing will try to ensure that CONSTRUCTION WORKERS ARE PAID FIRST in any restructuring, followed by HOMEBUYERS, then SUPPLIERS and lenders, said James Feng, the founding partner of Poseidon Capital Group, a Chinese fund that specializes in distressed and special situation investments. “It’s HIGHLY LIKELY that Evergrande’s offshore bondholders WILL BE WIPED OUT,” he said.

- To limit the real estate contagion, central bank Governor Yi Gang and other officials told financial institutions to cooperate with governments to “maintain the steady and healthy development of the real estate market” while safeguarding homeowners, according to a statement by the People’s Bank of China last week.
The regulators asked banks to refrain from cutting off funding to developers all at once, according to a person familiar with the matter. Lenders should continue supporting projects under construction and approve mortgages for buyers qualified for pre-sales, the person said.

- China has plenty of experience MANAGING COLLAPSES OF CONGLOMERATES like Evergrande. HNA Group Co.’s restructuring this year may be a model, according to Citigroup Inc. researchers. Following the HNA example, Beijing would likely step in, BREAK UP EVERGRANDE’S BUSINESSES and SELL ASSETS TO STRATEGIC INVESTORS. Under this scenario, BONDHOLDERS would take a SEVERE HAIRCUT and EQUITY INVESTORS would be very nearly WIPED OUT. Even after last week’s gains, Evergrande’s stock has tumbled 80% this year.

- So far, China has been ABLE TO LIMIT Evergrande’s contagion. Standard & Poor’s said it sees little evidence of a broader spillover into other parts of the financial markets, with impact confined to single-B rated developers. Citigroup expects some fallout from Evergrande, prompting a cut in its 2022 economic growth forecast to 4.9% from 5.5%.

- The challenge for China is to support the property sector WITHOUT STOKING THE TYPE OF OVERHEATING that it’s been working for years to curb. President Xi Jinping’s mantra is that HOUSING IS FOR LIVING NOT FOR SPECULATING, and Beijing wants to AVOID ANOTHER RUN UP IN PRICES that WOULD EXACERBATE INEQUALITY in the world’s second-largest economy. Still, inflicting pain on Evergrande and its investors also sends a signal that China DOESN’T CONDONE MASSIVE ACCUMULATIONS OF DEBT and the MORAL HAZARD that often comes with it.

- “Regulators will make sure NO SYSTEMIC FINANCIAL CRISIS WILL HAPPEN, which is their BOTTOM LINE,” said Zhou Hao, senior emerging markets strategist at Commerzbank AG in Singapore. “At the same time, they WILL PUNISH developers that are HIGHLY LEVERAGED.”

- BONDHOLDERS meanwhile are bracing for a MASSIVE HAIRCUT from any restructuring. S&P said last week it expects a “very high chance of default” for Evergrande given its liquidity situation and $300 billion in total liabilities.

- With Evergrande’s main OFFSHORE BOND trading at about 27 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR, investors like Marathon have little prospects of being made whole, they’re betting instead on some trading gains in the overhaul. “We don’t know what that recovery value is but we’re getting close to the point where it now makes sense” to buy, Richards said in a Bloomberg Television interview.


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solarz

Brigadier
If one peruses this article by Bloomberg News then he will understand why Blinken did jump in the Evergrande matter! :p :D

This article is quite balanced because it's written by Chinese staff, which I guess are the mainland Chinese.

Just read it on your own, I almost quote the whole article, only itemize it.

CHINA STEPS UP EFFORTS TO RING-FENCE EVERGRANDE, NOT SAVE IT

By Bloomberg News, 03 OCT 2021, Updated on 04 OCT 2021

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

- Beijing nudges banks to ease credit, support real estate firms

- Moves show China will put HOMEBUYERS ahead of bond creditors

- Evergrande is sitting on more than $300 billion in liabilities and it’s not just Chinese markets that are unsettled

- Evergrande Group edges closer to a MASSIVE restructuring

- Beijing has stepped up efforts to LIMIT THE FALLOUT, signaling it’s WILLING TO PROP UP healthy developers, homeowners and the real estate market AT THE EXPENSE of GLOBAL BONDHOLDERS.

- In the last week alone, Chinese authorities have dispatched top financial regulators to nudge the country’s massive banks to ease credit for homebuyers and support the property sector. They also bought out part of Evergrande’s stake in a struggling bank to limit contagion. The central bank meanwhile has pumped 790 billion yuan ($123 billion) into the financial system over 10 days to ease liquidity.

- The moves underscore that China will do everything it can to RING-FENCE Evergrande, while showing little interest in a direct bailout of the developer that has roiled global markets for weeks. That doesn’t bode well for bondholders -- both onshore and abroad -- looking for some kind of rescue from the Chinese government.

- “The FIRST OBLIGATION is going to make sure that HOMEOWNERS who bought those homes take delivery and are made whole,” said Marathon Asset Management Chief Executive Officer Bruce Richards. “At the very end of the pecking order are offshore bondholders.”

- For China, the risk of contagion far outweighs any potential damage from an Evergrande collapse on its own. Though Evergrande is one of the largest developers in China, it accounts for just 4% of sales in the country. A run on property firms in the wake of an Evergrande failure threatens to destabilize an industry that accounts for 29% of China’s economy, according to new research from Harvard University economist Ken Rogoff.

- Already, developers such as Sunac China Holdings Ltd. and Guangzhou R&F Properties Co. have plunged in trading, while their bond yields have soared. Some 12 real estate companies have reported bond defaults in the first half of this year, amounting to 19 billion yuan, according to Moody’s Investors Service.

- Evergrande and its property services arm were halted in Hong Kong stock trading pending an announcement on a “major transaction,” the developer said Monday in a stock exchange filing.

- Hopson Development Holdings Ltd. plans to acquire a 51% stake in Evergrande’s property services unit, according to Chinese financial news platform Cailian, citing unidentified people.

- “A DISORDERLY default of Evergrande is UNLIKELY because of the broad-based risk it presents to a large amount of the Chinese population,” said Alejandra Grindal, chief economist at Ned Davis Research Inc. “The government is probably less concerned about restructuring the offshore debt.”

- Homebuyers already face the threat of DECLINING PRICES after years of gains. Measures of price growth, housing starts and sales have moderated significantly in recent months. Evergrande’s sales alone probably plunged 93% in September from a year earlier

- Beijing will try to ensure that CONSTRUCTION WORKERS ARE PAID FIRST in any restructuring, followed by HOMEBUYERS, then SUPPLIERS and lenders, said James Feng, the founding partner of Poseidon Capital Group, a Chinese fund that specializes in distressed and special situation investments. “It’s HIGHLY LIKELY that Evergrande’s offshore bondholders WILL BE WIPED OUT,” he said.

- To limit the real estate contagion, central bank Governor Yi Gang and other officials told financial institutions to cooperate with governments to “maintain the steady and healthy development of the real estate market” while safeguarding homeowners, according to a statement by the People’s Bank of China last week.
The regulators asked banks to refrain from cutting off funding to developers all at once, according to a person familiar with the matter. Lenders should continue supporting projects under construction and approve mortgages for buyers qualified for pre-sales, the person said.

- China has plenty of experience MANAGING COLLAPSES OF CONGLOMERATES like Evergrande. HNA Group Co.’s restructuring this year may be a model, according to Citigroup Inc. researchers. Following the HNA example, Beijing would likely step in, BREAK UP EVERGRANDE’S BUSINESSES and SELL ASSETS TO STRATEGIC INVESTORS. Under this scenario, BONDHOLDERS would take a SEVERE HAIRCUT and EQUITY INVESTORS would be very nearly WIPED OUT. Even after last week’s gains, Evergrande’s stock has tumbled 80% this year.

- So far, China has been ABLE TO LIMIT Evergrande’s contagion. Standard & Poor’s said it sees little evidence of a broader spillover into other parts of the financial markets, with impact confined to single-B rated developers. Citigroup expects some fallout from Evergrande, prompting a cut in its 2022 economic growth forecast to 4.9% from 5.5%.

- The challenge for China is to support the property sector WITHOUT STOKING THE TYPE OF OVERHEATING that it’s been working for years to curb. President Xi Jinping’s mantra is that HOUSING IS FOR LIVING NOT FOR SPECULATING, and Beijing wants to AVOID ANOTHER RUN UP IN PRICES that WOULD EXACERBATE INEQUALITY in the world’s second-largest economy. Still, inflicting pain on Evergrande and its investors also sends a signal that China DOESN’T CONDONE MASSIVE ACCUMULATIONS OF DEBT and the MORAL HAZARD that often comes with it.

- “Regulators will make sure NO SYSTEMIC FINANCIAL CRISIS WILL HAPPEN, which is their BOTTOM LINE,” said Zhou Hao, senior emerging markets strategist at Commerzbank AG in Singapore. “At the same time, they WILL PUNISH developers that are HIGHLY LEVERAGED.”

- BONDHOLDERS meanwhile are bracing for a MASSIVE HAIRCUT from any restructuring. S&P said last week it expects a “very high chance of default” for Evergrande given its liquidity situation and $300 billion in total liabilities.

- With Evergrande’s main OFFSHORE BOND trading at about 27 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR, investors like Marathon have little prospects of being made whole, they’re betting instead on some trading gains in the overhaul. “We don’t know what that recovery value is but we’re getting close to the point where it now makes sense” to buy, Richards said in a Bloomberg Television interview.


This Bloomberg article is written with assistance by Yujing Liu, Emma Dong, Charlie Zhu, and Jun Luo

Makes sense, Western capitalists are going to get shafted if Evergrande goes kaput.

Makes you wonder why in the West, the supposed "democracies", the common people are the first ones to get screwed in the event of a major bankruptcy.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Thanks for sharing your background. I asked that because we had some (not a few) new members in this forum in the recent past pretending to be someone that they are not. I appreciate that you did not take my question as offensive.

The attitude is interesting and I can imagine that when two don't get very well in the neighborhood.

But I also had direct information from my Kenya friend who complained that "Chinese workers stay within their complex, compound, camps, never mingle with locals".

So it seems that, Kenyans dislike Chinese because they stay away from the locals, but in the mean time dislike Chinese in general for someone's perceived bad behavior. So either way one is damned.

I think if people want to engage with outsiders, people must be willing to accept the fact that some bad behavior from some of these outsiders is inevitable, and NOT make a big fuss about it. Otherwise, one must appreciate the distance that the outsider is trying to keep. There is NO perfect angel like outsiders, just like one's own countryman are not perfect.

Chinese has had and still has (to some degree) the altitude of expecting only good foreigners into China, I can say that Kenyans (the media) has the same altitude. Just like some Kenyans' media like you posted complaining cruel Chinese employer, some Chinese media also labeling Africans as trouble makers in Guanzhou. The difference is that Chinese government tries to suppress this kind of media report. Kenya as a democracy does not.

IMO, government suppression is necessary, because I believe general mass is more emotional and self-centric than rational and even-minded. As a individual like me, I prefer the suppression therefor I refute and reject such "national labeling negative journalist report" UNLESS it is presented with fact that can be verified independently. And even so, such report is unwarranted because "national labeling" is just another variant of racism.

Misconduct should be dealt by law of the relevant authority and not be used to paint image of certain people. Otherwise, one can not complain about the "negative imaging of Africans" in China or anywhere in the world.
As far as factory owners/managers are concerned, you often hear about these (Chinese) guys that sound like they are from Charles Dickens' stories.

These can be corroborated from the many stories and videos that always come up.
You see a lot of military style discipline, standing at attention, inspections, yelling, etc.
This is not really preferable for "regular civilians" which is why its not really common practice anymore outside of China.
Probably a product of a lot of SOEs having a military history.
Just kind of takes time for people to learn how to adjust to locals or what not.

However, who knows if things will soften in the future? According to reports, Amazon warehouse management is primarily driven by AI and algorithms, penalizing workers for going to the washroom as their productivity per minute is 0 when they do...
 

9dashline

Captain
Registered Member
Beijing will try to ensure that CONSTRUCTION WORKERS ARE PAID FIRST in any restructuring, followed by HOMEBUYERS, then SUPPLIERS and lenders, said James Feng, the founding partner of Poseidon Capital Group, a Chinese fund that specializes in distressed and special situation investments. “It’s HIGHLY LIKELY that Evergrande’s offshore
West/US been trying to harvest China, this is like reverse harvest where China takes it crops back from grubby Anglo hands...

No wonder US SecState is blinking about this issue so much
 

windsclouds2030

Senior Member
Registered Member
Like I said to my somewhat pro-west friend before that if the 2008 financial crisis happened or was triggered in China just imagine the howlings of the western hypocrites led by the U.S. with all their fake and pseudo analysis blaming the CPC for the failure which would essentially say that the failures were the result of a fundamentally incompatible political system i.e. Communism/Socialism with Chinese characteristics. One doesn't need to imagine how China would be painted by the usual lemmings and the kind of "special investigation" that must be conducted in China's financial system the howling hyenas would be screaming from the rooftops.

Somehow, the U.S. can cause so many world destabilization actions like their 2008 financial crash, the war in Iraq in 2003, the Syrian, Libyan, Kosova war etc...not to mention having American tech companies being found to have caused societal degradation, societal and political polarization around the world and yet NO CALL OF SANCTIONS; NO CALL FOR POLITICAL DEMOCRATIC REFORM OR EVEN A CALL FOR REVOLUTION is being fermented or pushed by the usual sheeps. Which for me confirms the sheer hypocrisy of much of the western world and the gullibility of the idiotic liberal Chinese who are more than happy to drink the poison chalice of destruction of China. And because of these unfolding events my disgust and contempt for the west have unfortunately increased tremendously.
I agree with what you said here!

But OTOH, such forgiving, permissiveness of abuse and wrongdoings, closing the eyes.... in short, to allow all the malpractices to happen again and again, is what causing the western system rotten (esp. the US system), weaken its society, its state... create all the problems we're witnessing today.

If the system is not such corrupt, then its hegemony may last another 100 years! Just think over it in another way...
 

windsclouds2030

Senior Member
Registered Member
Makes sense, Western capitalists are going to get shafted if Evergrande goes kaput.

Makes you wonder why in the West, the supposed "democracies", the common people are the first ones to get screwed in the event of a major bankruptcy.
The USA in particular is essentially a CORPOTOCRACY or PLUTOCRACY at the 20th / 21st century!

Democracy is just a deceiving term used by the ruling class to fool the plebs there... fortunately it still has the magical $$$ (digital) "printer" running so can give many free hand-outs so far, but imagine if the USD is no longer a WRC thus can't "print" at will
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
For every benefactor of the current world order (all of Europe included), Taiwan is a great tool to distract China. They feel no qualms in salami slicing the topic. Really though, China must ditch the non-interference policy and start dealing with non-state actors too.
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Has France or French politicians have made prior visits in the past? Or is this visit was the first of it's kind. Also, is France trying to f..k with the U.S. attempts to reduce the tension (based on the most recent pronouncements that came from both Sino-America statements) or are we witnessing the execution of the American led strategy formulated earlier this year in England during the G-7 summit.

They are really trying to nibble at China's most core principle with respect to Taiwan. China it seems is being pressed to make a drastic action because it's military power is not really being feared let alone respected or worst these antagonists think that China will be muted with respect to using military action in Taiwan because of how western based intelligence misreading, willfull misunderstanding and frankly lack of respect with respect to China's bottom line.

Is the trend going to vilify China enough that it'll acquiesce to the demands imposed by the west; to weaken her economy thereby weakening the party which in the minds of the China watchers would lead to internal disarray causing a fissure within the Chinese people which could then sprung the new dawn of sprinkles and rainbow the western dreamers call "Democracy" a.k.a. plutocracy.
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
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Any bets on what will come out of this (virtual) meeting?

I bet that it will be "responsible competition", and "save our planet from climate change"
The usual boilerplate. The useful thing to come out of a meeting like this is a tactical truce - time which China can use to grow stronger and prepare for the next round of hostilities.
They feel no qualms in salami slicing the topic.
As the recent Ladakh business showed, decades of salami slicing can be undone in an instant.
 
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