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- Thread starter bd popeye
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Russia tried literally every single carrot in the book and Ukraine rejected it all. They couped their elected president for empty promises.
The EU deal never worked out either BTW, Ukrainian GDP plummeted 12% (!!) after 2015 as EU investors bought assets for pennies on the dollar, as expected, and as Donbass residents dependent on domestic industry warned.
They got nothing except a permanently hostile Russia.
Why does @Africablack not mention this, huh? If it's not smart for Russia to "antagonize" Ukraine, how fucking smart is it of Ukraine to antagonize Russia and tank its own economy on the basis of nothing but words from EU?
That IS the whole point.
Grief relationships between Russia and the west, so Russia can better focus on its obligations to China. Beijing is a jealous wife and will not tolerate the Kremlin eyeing pan white-identity politics in Europe.
What Putin gets out of this is that his country has already tried kowtowing to the west once. It ended with millions of Russians dead, prostituted and/or addicted to drugs. China is offering Russia a chance to build a new type of state, free from oligarchy and free from the west. The war is the shock therapy that frees Russia from EU/US colonization.
Strangle with what? What exactly can they do that they haven’t done yet? China isn’t going to stop trading with Russia and it is doubtful India will either. Then on the military side. How are they going to strangle the military when their industrial military capabilities are almost entirely domestic. If you are talking about military goals then how. No amount of weapons is going to magically allow Ukraine to start winning again when manpower is heavily depleted.
If China was as passive as people keep insisting then China military wouldn’t be growing or modernizing. People are too accustomed to the western style of blunt public geopolitics which is causing severe tunnel vision. Instead of looking at what kind of actions they are doing behind the doors. Just like what the Russians were complaining about leading to the events in 2022. You would have been completely blind sided if you only read their public diplomatic speak.
Europe is a spent and declining market don't think a Quatari pipeline will save them and their industry. By that time the gas will reach the European markets Europe's manufacturers will be dependent on Chinese component or are already transferred to China, kind of like Tesla. Russia will send its oil and grain to China and ASEAN a more fertile and expanding market.
Im more wondering what the talks in Tehran will be about now that the US/Nato has secured Syria and still have influence in Iraq. Thats one hell of a staging ground Biden gifted Trump.
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I fully expect that Israel will brazenly attack a high value target in Iran in broad daylight and then dare it to counter-attack with Trump threatening Iran that if it dares to attack Israel he will wipe them out.
That's when the real fun will begin
Big loss for Syria maybe, loss for Russia and Iran, probably only if Syria is completely under western control with that pipeline from Qatar to Europe, I would agree. But if that pipeline doesn’t get built and Syria is engulfed in civil war that ensures that the region becomes a money sink for the west to extract value from the place, might not be much of a loss at all, could even be a plus if we need to be cold about it. I don’t see how this could be a big win for the U.S. when this incident does nothing to solve its fundamental issues. Don’t over estimate Syrias value, the region was never going to be stable, I am surprised it took this long for the USA to take Syria and I don’t think it would do much to boost the reputation of the USA to boast about it now. Also Trump says a lot of things about attacking Iran but in all seriousness, considering the rather horrible situation the U.S. economy is in, he should seriously shut up unless he wants what remains of US economy to go down the toilet.
Why do these western pundits automatically assume a victory like this is a turning point, this could very easily like all other situations could easily backfire on them, didn’t some people here learn not to assume things only to find the opposite ended up being true.
The important question to ask if this so called victory automatic repairs all the economic damage done to the USA, Israel, France and Germany. If anyone says yes, then they pretty much has taken leave of their braincells. it’s like spending all the weapons in WW2 and then ultimately losing its super power status soon after due to being that weakened. Doesn’t this describe Europe (UK essentially) quite well
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Let me say once again that any country looking to ally with China must meet the bare minimum standard of purchasing its walkie talkies and pagers from China. Thank you and have a nice day.
Israel still hasn't got an end in sight at it's own war, and things are about to get worse as Erdogan's thugs get ready to spread their reign of terror on Israel's kurds. Then after that what? Nation building? More like spreading Jihad into other sunni neighbors like Jordan and Lebanon.
Assad performing even worse doesn't fix Netanyahu's own poor performance.
Neither Israel nor Iran is in a position to make moves at this point. Israel was so pummeled by the Lebanon war that they couldn't even stay long enough in position to aid the Turkish Syria attack (and Israel with imho 90% confidence chance was told in advance by Erdogan). Iran is doing porcupine strats with import weapons since the chance of direct US invasion is high with Trump.
Russia was dealing with the UN recognized government of Ukraine.
In fact, it was offered in contrast to the actual last second 2013 IMF loan conditions, tied to the EU association agreement, which were extremely harsh and demanded a Ukrainian government budget cut along with a 40% increase in domestic gas prices while offering a much lower $4 billion USD loan.
How did this turn out for Ukraine?
Your kind often demand the world from China and Russia, but are happy with western crumbs. And you go surprise Pikachu when you get rekt for it. Understand this first, then think about what you really want.