Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 is Missing

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Playing devils advocate for a moment.

If this was a government agency level covert operation, the agents need not suicide themselves. They could easily pack parachutes in their main luggage, or even have parachutes in the freight cargo. Once the agents killed everyone and got what they needed, they could access the cargo deck via crew elevators, unpack their chutes and communications gear, radio in, perform a halo jump and get picked up by a waiting SSN.
Wolf first they would have to kill or knockout all the passengers and crew, but lets assume they had some mission impossible super gas, now not only would they need to have parachutes but gas masks. Second if this was a C130 or a C17 perhaps but the cargo hatches on a jumbo don't work like that. I can only think of one person who ever tried to pull off a real sky dive from a commercial airliner. D.B. Sweeney. And his fate is still a unknown.
But the plane he was on had a actual parachute ramp. A feature not found on 737. They would have to open the cargo hatches on the sides of the plane and push the cargo out preying that the Jet engines don't pull then in or that that cargo does not smack into the wing. And then that they themselves don't get dragged though the engines or smack like a bug into a windshield onto the side of the plane. Besides that if it was so valuable that the US would kill 200 or so foreign nationals why did the US let it get to Afghanistan in the first place? I mean after the RQ170 incident the US government did not blast that drone and why? Well RQ180 I think answers why. They sent the RQ170 as it was cutting edge to Iran and Afghanistan but nearing replacement for the US.
The claim also was that the drone controllers got nabbed during transit, when the Taliban hit a convoy, so that's unlikely but perfectly possible.
most if not all American drone operations are controlled now from US soil. So the Taliban would have to be in Virginia or Nevada. Out side of that Qatar or Saudi Arabia. Only maintenance personal would be in country and then they would likely be flown in. And kept on base.
Where that theory falls on its face is explaining just why it was necessary to get the drone controllers to Malaysia, and how the Taliban managed that, when it would have probably been easier and safer to get the equipment directly to China via the shared land boarder, or even through Pakistan.
I think this theory was already flat on it's face long before we moved to Malaysia, now its hanging on by shear will of belief.
If it was a government op, it was either planned that all passengers had to die, or something went catastrophically wrong.
once again if it was worth the lives of 200 people why then was it anywhere near a dangerous place? If it was that valuable the US government would never have allowed it outside of Area 51.
For the first scenario, it is really hard to think of anything valuable enough for any government to seriously consider, never mind sanction, such high profile mass murder. This isn't taking a bunch of guys few would miss behind a shed and hoping no one would notice or care. The world, or at least the Chinese, would not rest until they got answers. The consequences of discovery would be too catastrophic to risk no matter what was at stake or how small the chance of damning evidence being found.
exactly its a nonsensical theory put together by people looking to grind a ax against the US and Israel.
As such, I am leaning more towards covert mission gone horribly wrong. The scenario that springs most readily to mind would be a similar case to the infamous Moscow Theatre seige.

The plan was for the pilot to shake the plane about a bit, and then deploy masks instructing the crew and passengers to use them. No one would have thought to disobey such an order. Only instead of just air, the masks' supply were laced with sleeping gas (or they could have just released the gas directly through the plane's ventilation system. With it being a red eye, few would have been suspicious if they woke up all of a sudden without realising that they had fallen asleep).

The idea was to knock everyone out long enough for the agents to do what they needed to do. Then the pilot turns off the sleeping gas and everyone wakes up in Beijing none the wiser, with their mark and escort having no idea what happened to the package.

Problem was someone messed up the dosage and the gas ended up killing everyone.

Agents, and their handlers back at HQ freaked out when they realised what happened, that's when they disabled the transponders and started to actively try to evade radar by dropping to the deck. The many course corrections could be explained by the chaos of everyone trying to come to grips with the disaster and the agents getting contradictory orders as people higher and higher up the chain found out and everyone wanted it handled differently.

Ultimately the decision was to fly the plane as far off course as possible and ditch it in the hope that no one ever finds it, or at least no one can find the crash site in time to gather any incriminating evidence, like bodies filled with lethal concentrations of sleeping gas for example.

and just when it seems like reason has won the day... Wolf really do me a favor reread the theory, then google "9/11 drone conspiracy"
why because I have my own theory.

somewhere in the world wide web is a cabal of people who hate the US and Israel. These people feel so much dislike of these entities that they feel they must be behind everything that goes wrong. So years ago they created a theory based around the US and Israeli drone technology's this theory they felt must explain what happened on September 11,2001. Then years later a event happened also involving aircraft. And so this Cabal stepped up and pulled out there. Old theory long since debunked and did a rewrite. They argued that since the US went to war after 9/11 then surely there was something the US wanted in Afghanistan, and when that fell apart they reasoned that the drones themselves were the answer. They said that since there first theory was debunked they had to alter it, so the hijack technology was now the result of Israeli technology built after 9/11 and at a later date they then reason they would reveal that it was in fact the cause of 9/11, they learned of Iranians on the plane... Well that wouldn't do so they must have been Israelis masquerading as Iranians who were using some one else passports. Then this Cabal changed the secret base where the plane would land in the original version to Diego Garcia, reasoning that it was the perfect place for nefarious conspiracies. But what about the people? Well the Cabal Argues since they are Chinese and everyone knows the US and China are rivals then the US and Israelis killed them all and crashed the plane by remote in the Indian ocean. Then this Cabal posted it all on the world wide web and hoped that there soon to form following would buy in and join them in reveling the "Truth" about the evil doers of the world.

mean time the real investigation has been ongoing, and hampered not by secrets being held back but by busy seas, improperly prepared management, half dozen navys from across the region with varying degrees of SAR training, Chinese delegations demanding answers, a rabid press corps from all over the world Malaysia spokesmen who are getting contradictory advice on how to handle the next of kin and the sudden realization that every step they have take. Since they were born is now being cataloged and measured.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

So TE, you are trying to counter one conspiracy theory by creating a new, far more implausible one? :confused:

I do get a lot of junk mail that I don't bother checking, but I think I would have noticed if I started getting "ultra secret anti-American/Israeli cabal monthly' magazines through the door. :rolleyes: I have also been very careful to not point any fingers, and thus far the only one to bring America or Israel into our discussion is you sir.

That's about as far as I got before I lost your train of thought and decided it wasn't worth the effort to try and piece together all the different conspiracy theories you got mixed up in your last post.

If I wasn't clear before, let me sum things up for you.

I actually agreed with you that all this talk of super secret US drone controllers getting hijacked in Afghanistan and ending up in Malaysia trying to catch a ride to Beijing makes very little sense.

I then went on to say that if this was a government agency operation, I think it was extremely unlikely that the intention was to kill everyone on board (even if that was the intention, there are far easier and less conspicuous ways of doing that. A mysterious engine failure or even terrorist attack would have done it).

As such, the only plausible explanation for a government agency to have done this is if something went catastrophically wrong by accident, and that ended up killing all the passengers and crew, and I presented the the most plausible example I can think of, of what might have been planned and how it could have gone so wrong.

Flying the plane out to the middle of nowhere to ditch it would have been a last ditch, on the spot decision to try and cover up this calamity. Which is why it generate so many hard to answer questions so very publicly. Which again reinforces my earlier position that it is extremely unlikely that killing all the passenger and crew and crashing the plane was ever the intention.

If you have a problem with any of that, by all means address the merits or demerits of any specific point. Ranting unintelligibly about cabals and 9/11 conspiracy theories does not help your case at all when you are trying to accuse others of having a tinfoil hat collection.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Okay lets try again. I am saying both theories are totally implausible and theory number two was even more so as its recycled materials from a totally Debunked theory. I am saying that I don't believe any government was involved in any manor with the willful sabotage or destruction of MAS in the manors described by you or the above conspiracy nonsense. That these theories are the result of individuals who are with out any evidence and simply spinning there wheels. Sometimes grinding a political or ideological axe along the way. And that by playing Devils advocate all we are doing is egging them on.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

Haixun 01 has detected two pings and Austrailian ship Ocean Shield has got one ping

HMS Echo is 14 hours away and remains to be seem what it can catch

Look like the investment by the Chinese in large advanced coast guard ships has paid off as they were the first to get the pings all eyes are on Haixun 01
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

About Haixun 01.

It is largest and most advanced patrol vessel. The vessel is 5,418 tons and 128.6 meters in length, with sailing speeds of up to 37 km per hour and a maximum sailing distance of 18,520 km without the need for refueling.
Platforms onboard can accommodate helicopter take offs and landings for refueling and search and rescue efforts. The vessel is equipped with onboard emergency medical and surgery facilities, and is capable of taking in 200 passengers.
 

Quickie

Colonel
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

That's easy. You need to disable the pingers on the aircraft at the right time and have an alternative pinger sending pings at exactly the right time and at exactly the right frequency and strength to represent the path you want investigators to believe the aircraft followed. Any developed country as well as some large companies and perhaps a few terrorist organisations should be able to do this. Take a good place for your pinger and don't forget to account for the exact distance to the satellite. If Diego Garcia is part of your theory place the pinger there. Otherwise put it on a ship in a rather empty part of the Indian Ocean.

My understanding is that the pings are not exactly how most news media describe it as being one way. According to some TV commentators, the pings are signal handshakes that goes both ways between the plane and satellite. So, it may not be that simple to the simulate the handshake and doing so may require someone doing an inside job in the Satellite company, especially if some kind of encryption is used.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

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more detail about the pinger detector used by Haixun-01.

The pinger locater the crew was using is designed for divers to search at depths up to 600 feet; in this case, it had an adapter that allows it to be hung it off the side of a boat. But the depth rating relates more to the pressure the housing can withstand, Altshuler said, rather than the distance at which pings could be detected.

Australian officials said Sunday ocean depths in the area where the Chinese crews reported detecting the pulses could be up to 4,500 meters, or about 14,700 feet.

“It would typically not be used to be look for something that is thousands of meters deep in the ocean. That’s not what it is designed to do,” Altshuler said in a phone interview.


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More sour grapes and jealousy by the western media just because China was the first to detect the ping, but they couldn't give full credit because that would make China look too good. Better yet the article don't even have proof that the Chinese ship even use this same technology to search for the missing flight MH370.
 

shen

Senior Member
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

More sour grapes and jealousy by the western media just because China was the first to detect the ping, but they couldn't give full credit because that would make China look too good. Better yet the article don't even have proof that the Chinese ship even use this same technology to search for the missing flight MH370.

Their mistake to assume the 600 feet depth limit on the specs sheet is the detection limit. The manufacturer of the device corrected that mistake in the article. The 600 feet limit is actually the crush depth of the housing of the device. It is certainly capable of detecting signals much deeper than that. I posted this link earlier.
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The author states he used the same device to locate flight data recorders at a depth of 6700 feet.
 
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Quickie

Colonel
Re: Malaysia Airlines Plane is Missing

More sour grapes and jealousy by the western media just because China was the first to detect the ping, but they couldn't give full credit because that would make China look too good. Better yet the article don't even have proof that the Chinese ship even use this same technology to search for the missing flight MH370.

Better yet the article don't even have proof that the Chinese ship even use this same technology to search for the missing flight MH370.

It's good to use another set of equipment to test for the same result to rule out any equipment fault/anomaly that could result in false detection. It's possible they were using another set of equipment when they first detected the signal.
 
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