Low-cost, muti-role aircraft for small militaries

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

The Kfir was indeed developed and fielded around the same time as the F-15 and F-16. Some would consider it as simply a then new build Mirage III/5, but it was a new evolution combining qualities of both. The Israelis were suitably impressed with the Mirages during their airwars that they developed the Kfir to serve in the air-to-air role. Though no longer manufactured, the block 60 upgrade allows it to be a competitive option for air services with limited financial resources.


Israel Aerospace Industries promises very short delivery schedules for the renovated jets, which it claims are even better than fourth-generation jets.



Israel Aerospace Industries is seeking to market its Kfir fighter jet, originally designed for the Israeli Air Force, to foreign countries at the price of $20 million a piece, complete with a 40-year manufacturer’s guarantee.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

On the counter point of the Kfir decision (sorry but I need to be the devil advocate) we need to take into account that this is not a new aircraft with 4 generation g-loading. When the manufacturer says that zero airframe reconstruction the 8000 hours can simply mean that they inspected, rebuilt what is necessary and certified an old Kfir airframe for an 8000 flight hours. Each aircraft certainly includes other components on much shorter cycles, and if there is a scarcity of spares, the practical flight hours may be shorter than "8000 hours".

According to different sources, it seems only 185 Kfir were ever built. 102 of them were exported to various countries, and if we consider IAF losses and the cannibalization to generate exported units, there may be less than 30 to 40 available for upgrade at this point. So, where are a reputed 50 "Block 60" Kfir going to get their short-cycle spares from?


Whatever label IAI Lahav and IMOD SIBAT choose to market refurbished ex-IAF Kfir as (Kfir 2000, then Kfir C.10/12 on to the present "Block 60")... we're still talking about airframes that are around 30 years old. The last new-build Kfir dates back to before 1986.

I would appreciate feedback from the forum members.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Miragedriver said:

According to different sources, it seems only 185 Kfir were ever built. 102 of them were exported to various countries, and if we consider IAF losses and the cannibalization to generate exported units, there may be less than 30 to 40 available for upgrade at this point. So, where are a reputed 50 "Block 60" Kfir going to get their short-cycle spares from?

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IAI certainly produce spare parts for Kfirs - after all , plane flew in Israeli service until late 90's and it is currently used by Columbia , Ecuador and Sri Lanka . They will continue to support their product as long as it takes in order to preserve market and reputation . This is the common practice among aircraft producers , same as Dasault producing parts for Mirage F1 although last came from assembly line in 1992. Of course , it would be prudent for Argentina to obtain full ToT on some critical parts , just in case .

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

thunderchief said:

IAI certainly produce spare parts for Kfirs - after all , plane flew in Israeli service until late 90's and it is currently used by Columbia , Ecuador and Sri Lanka . They will continue to support their product as long as it takes in order to preserve market and reputation . This is the common practice among aircraft producers , same as Dasault producing parts for Mirage F1 although last came from assembly line in 1992. Of course , it would be prudent for Argentina to obtain full ToT on some critical parts , just in case .

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Thanks! Just like automobile manufactures making money on the replacement parts. I guess my real concern was larger airframe parts, in addition to if there are sufficient “surplus” Kfirs to supply 50 aircraft and replacement parts (larger ones) to clients.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Miragedriver said:

Thanks! Just like automobile manufactures making money on the replacement parts. I guess my real concern was larger airframe parts, in addition to if there are sufficient “surplus” Kfirs to supply 50 aircraft and replacement parts (larger ones) to clients.

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Well , if it eases your mind , Croatia is refurbishing (in Ukraine) old Mig-21s produced in 70's (link in Croatian below ) . So everything is possible .

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

thunderchief said:

Well , if it eases your mind , Croatia is refurbishing (in Ukraine) old Mig-21s produced in 70's (link in Croatian below ) . So everything is possible .

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Interesting. The return of 3rd generation aircraft with modern avionics. New hope for cash straped 3rd world Air Forces

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

thunderchief said:

Depends . If they are really at 0 hours and guaranteed to serve another 20 years or 6000 hours ... You could compare it with JF-17 (Argentina considered this airplane) and slightly more expensive Mig-29 SMT . All of them have their pros and cons .

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Just for the sake of conversation. What is your view point on the pros and cons of each of those three aircraft:
JF-17, MiG-29 and the Kfir block 60

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

The interesting fact to all this is that after the purchase of the Mirage F-1s and the Kfir (neither in sufficient quantities) Argentina will have the following aircraft:

20 Mirage F-1s, which will need to be replaced in 6 or 7 years (pay back to Spain for the expropriation of YPF)

18 Kfir Block 60, hopefully they will last 20 to 30 years

30 A-4AR will be operational after receiving the spare parts from Israel (these aircraft have 10 to 15 years tops lest on them)

Three different types of aircraft, which is just enough to complicate logistic support, however in insufficient numbers to make any real difference militarily.

Re: New life to older aircraft

It will be interesting to see if over the next few years as Air Forces around the world begin to retire worn out aircraft if the trend will be for an expensive and inexpensive mix. What I mean by this is the purchase of a few high end Multi-roll fighters (for when the bullets start flying) and refurbished aircraft for the daily “patrolling the air space” roll.

When these old aircraft that are refurbished run out, or are too old to justify refurbishment (by refurbishment I mean new avionics, radar and reservicing the airframe), there will need to be an inexpensive fighter to replace them for the above mentioned duties. Something along the lines of a F-5E, Mirage III and MiG-21.

Any thoughts?

Re: New life to older aircraft

Some will loose there air force as a fighter force, focus on ground attack and transport logistics. Some will simply turn there air forces into a infantry reserve. Buying SAMs.
some will outsource to private contractors.
others will buy multi role trainers like the Yak130, FA50 or unique types like the scorpion still others will try and buy newer types like the Chinese JF17 or follow in the foot steps of Iran and develop a clone fighter based on one of the more simple designs. A few will upgrade buying newer more advanced offerings from west or east.