Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?
What about the discussion about buying JF-17 earlier reported by janes?
What about the discussion about buying JF-17 earlier reported by janes?
Low-cost, muti-role aircraft for small militaries
- Thread starter Miragedriver
- Start date
thunderchief
Senior Member
Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?
You could write a long essay about this
. Essentially , if you consider Mig-29 SMT then WVR : Mig-29,JF-17, Kfir BVR:Kfir ,Mig-29,JF-17 strike:Kfir,Mig-29,JF-17 , range:JF-17, Mig-29 , Kfir upgrade potential:JF-17,Mig-29,Kfir
Things could and probably would change in the future as JF-17 matures . As it stands , each country would have to consider its needs before making selection .
You could write a long essay about this
. Essentially , if you consider Mig-29 SMT then WVR : Mig-29,JF-17, Kfir BVR:Kfir ,Mig-29,JF-17 strike:Kfir,Mig-29,JF-17 , range:JF-17, Mig-29 , Kfir upgrade potential:JF-17,Mig-29,Kfir Things could and probably would change in the future as JF-17 matures . As it stands , each country would have to consider its needs before making selection .
Miragedriver
Brigadier
Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?
Most likely these negotiations are on the back burner for now. Argentina has to keep the appearance of being in the “most favorable non-NATO” status for the time being. Maybe there will be a minor technology transfer to FAdeA in the form of the Kfir upgrade?
Who really knows. It is like wheels within wheels, or as I should say “lies within lies”
Most likely these negotiations are on the back burner for now. Argentina has to keep the appearance of being in the “most favorable non-NATO” status for the time being. Maybe there will be a minor technology transfer to FAdeA in the form of the Kfir upgrade?
Who really knows. It is like wheels within wheels, or as I should say “lies within lies”
Miragedriver
Brigadier
Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?
I go on. I am curious to have your take on this. Kurt briefly touched on this subject, but I think it deserves discussion in this forum. All opinions are encouraged and respected here.
This could include there interaction with UAVs, AWAC and Stealth radar systems, which are now becoming more prevalent on upgrades than on existing new builds.
You could write a long essay about this
Things could and probably would change in the future as JF-17 matures . As it stands , each country would have to consider its needs before making selection .
I go on. I am curious to have your take on this. Kurt briefly touched on this subject, but I think it deserves discussion in this forum. All opinions are encouraged and respected here.
This could include there interaction with UAVs, AWAC and Stealth radar systems, which are now becoming more prevalent on upgrades than on existing new builds.
Miragedriver
Brigadier
Re: New life to older aircraft
So you do not see someone (by that I mean a developing nation) like Korea, Taiwan, Brazil; developing a low cost (fill the ranks) type of fight that can support a better fleet of 4th generation multi-roll aircraft?
As mentioned previously, as being a modern day version of the F-5E or The Mig-21bis.
Additionally, I don’t see some air forces becoming personnel for SAM batteries. These will most likely loss their fast jets for combat trainers (as you mentioned) or utilizing COIN aircraft in a support roll for the army.
So you do not see someone (by that I mean a developing nation) like Korea, Taiwan, Brazil; developing a low cost (fill the ranks) type of fight that can support a better fleet of 4th generation multi-roll aircraft?
As mentioned previously, as being a modern day version of the F-5E or The Mig-21bis.
Additionally, I don’t see some air forces becoming personnel for SAM batteries. These will most likely loss their fast jets for combat trainers (as you mentioned) or utilizing COIN aircraft in a support roll for the army.
Miragedriver
Brigadier
Re: Low Cost Battlefield Attack Aircraft
These types of aircraft will be able to provide smaller militaries on budgets to have a good multi-purpose aircraft with the advantages of a fixed wing and rotary wing.
It could be used:
a) On amphibious support ships for air support or even in an ASW roll.
b) Armies can use it as a VTOL COIN aircraft, an observation aircraft.
c) All services can use it a SAR mode.
You could place a small radar in it, arm with sidewinders and have a poor man’s Harrier.
These types of aircraft will be able to provide smaller militaries on budgets to have a good multi-purpose aircraft with the advantages of a fixed wing and rotary wing.
It could be used:
a) On amphibious support ships for air support or even in an ASW roll.
b) Armies can use it as a VTOL COIN aircraft, an observation aircraft.
c) All services can use it a SAR mode.
You could place a small radar in it, arm with sidewinders and have a poor man’s Harrier.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Re: New life to older aircraft
I thought I did state that as a possibility.
I thought I did state that as a possibility.
Miragedriver
Brigadier
Re: New life to older aircraft
Yes, you did. I stand corrected!
I need to re-read previous post and not answer so late at night.
Yes, you did. I stand corrected!
I need to re-read previous post and not answer so late at night.
Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?
on this deal:
After sales service: JF-17: 9 pts out of 10? (think about the # of Chinese engineers in Pak). Kfir:7? Mig-29: 3 or 4?
Political (e.g. the UNSC) and Strategic Influence achieved via the sale: JF-17: 9. Mig-29: 9. Kfir:0
Pricing: JF-17: 10 , Kfir (used): 7 , mig-29:4
Industrial production capacity & speed (of the home country): JF-17:9, Mig-29:5, Kfir:2
Level of industrial independence (both intellectual & production) of tech involved: mig-29:10, JF-17:9, Kfir:5?
Economy of usage (e.g.cost of missiles etc weaponaries, maintanence, etc): JF-17: 9, Kfir:7? , Mig-29 (2-engine):5
Overall value of potential ToT per dollar invested: JF-17: 9, Mig-29: 7 or unknown, Kfir: 5
Potential economies of scale & synergy achieved via closely related future air-defence system deals (AWACS, Sam, Radars, missiles, non-USA-controlled Beidou/ GLONASS Sat applications, etc. ): JF-17:9, Mig-29:9, Kfir:2
Positive impact on aviation industrial value chain as a whole due to the ToT: JF-17:9, Mig-29:9, Kfir:3
Potential economies of scale & synergy achieved via other militray deals beyond airforces, e.g. in army and navy:
JF-17:9, Mig-29: 7, Kfir:3
Positive synergies achieved with wider domestic economy beyond Aviation Industry or Defence Industry in general:
JF-17:9 , Mig-29: 3, Kfir:2
..,
Buying F-16, one allies with the world's current #1 military, and #1 (?) economic & industrial superpower.
Buying JF-17, one allies with the world's current #2 (incoming #1?) economic, industrial and military superpower.
Buying Mig-29, one allies with the world's current #2 (or #3?) military superpower.
Buying Kfir, one allies with... errr... the weather is horrible these days eh?
Buying Kfir, one allies with a smart-suited middleman of a shopping mall.
...
I wonder if it will take Argentine forums another 50 years to figure it out above nobel prize-level top secrets.
on this deal:
After sales service: JF-17: 9 pts out of 10? (think about the # of Chinese engineers in Pak). Kfir:7? Mig-29: 3 or 4?
Political (e.g. the UNSC) and Strategic Influence achieved via the sale: JF-17: 9. Mig-29: 9. Kfir:0
Pricing: JF-17: 10 , Kfir (used): 7 , mig-29:4
Industrial production capacity & speed (of the home country): JF-17:9, Mig-29:5, Kfir:2
Level of industrial independence (both intellectual & production) of tech involved: mig-29:10, JF-17:9, Kfir:5?
Economy of usage (e.g.cost of missiles etc weaponaries, maintanence, etc): JF-17: 9, Kfir:7? , Mig-29 (2-engine):5
Overall value of potential ToT per dollar invested: JF-17: 9, Mig-29: 7 or unknown, Kfir: 5
Potential economies of scale & synergy achieved via closely related future air-defence system deals (AWACS, Sam, Radars, missiles, non-USA-controlled Beidou/ GLONASS Sat applications, etc. ): JF-17:9, Mig-29:9, Kfir:2
Positive impact on aviation industrial value chain as a whole due to the ToT: JF-17:9, Mig-29:9, Kfir:3
Potential economies of scale & synergy achieved via other militray deals beyond airforces, e.g. in army and navy:
JF-17:9, Mig-29: 7, Kfir:3
Positive synergies achieved with wider domestic economy beyond Aviation Industry or Defence Industry in general:
JF-17:9 , Mig-29: 3, Kfir:2
..,
Buying F-16, one allies with the world's current #1 military, and #1 (?) economic & industrial superpower.
Buying JF-17, one allies with the world's current #2 (incoming #1?) economic, industrial and military superpower.
Buying Mig-29, one allies with the world's current #2 (or #3?) military superpower.
Buying Kfir, one allies with... errr... the weather is horrible these days eh?
Buying Kfir, one allies with a smart-suited middleman of a shopping mall.
...
I wonder if it will take Argentine forums another 50 years to figure it out above nobel prize-level top secrets.
Last edited:
Miragedriver
Brigadier
Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?
My sentiments exactly (Heavy sigh)! First the disaster of purchasing (nearly expired) Mirage F-1s as payback to Spain and then the Kfir deal.
They should have gone with the JF-17 production, worked with Brazil on a assemble of a joint fighter and take advantage of the economies of scale, or purchase cheap Mig-29s and have the Israeli’s modify them to snipers.
I wonder if it will take Argentine forums another 50 years to figure it out above nobel prize-level top secrets.
My sentiments exactly (Heavy sigh)! First the disaster of purchasing (nearly expired) Mirage F-1s as payback to Spain and then the Kfir deal.
They should have gone with the JF-17 production, worked with Brazil on a assemble of a joint fighter and take advantage of the economies of scale, or purchase cheap Mig-29s and have the Israeli’s modify them to snipers.