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Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Dolcevita said:

Do not agree with accuracy of this author but could be informative on China Latin American Military Engagement,

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It's a good article as a way to study the possibilities of what the China-Latin America relations could do to threaten US interests in the region. I do agreed with you on some of the issues the author tends to dramatized on about it. IMO Latin America has their own interests and should pursue it anyway they wish. What's wrong with forming strong ties with both economic super powers such as the US and China?

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Equation said:

Thank you for the explanation Miragedriver.

"There is also an American Argentine joint aerial excercises called Gringo-Gaucho."

Seriously? I thought the words Gringo and Gaucho are offensive (just curious)?

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True, but what is interesting is that the Gaucho is a good word to call someone in Argentina. An example of “El es muy Gaucho” which loosely translates to “He’s a real manly”
The word Gringo for an America is not used in Argentina, the work “Yanqui”, or Yankee is used. The word Gringo is I believed used by the Mexicans as a somewhat derogatory word(?). What’s interesting is that the word Gringo in Argentina is a slang word for Italian.
I assume that the Americans have a good sense of humor in the word usage.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Miragedriver said:

True, but what is interesting is that the Gaucho is a good word to call someone in Argentina. An example of “El es muy Gaucho” which loosely translates to “He’s a really manly”
The word Gringo for an America is not used in Argentina, the work “Yanqui”, or Yankee in English is used. The word Gringo is I believed used by the Mexicans as a somewhat derogatory word(?). What’s interesting is that the word Gringo in Argentina is a slang word for Italian.
I assume that the Americans have a good sense of humor in the word usage.

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They do, especially on comedy movies and television shows. Since there are large number of immigrants coming from Mexico in living Texas I'm used to hearing the word Gringo as a derogatory, just slightly nowadays.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

The latest news regarding the quickly disappearing Argentine Air Force:

A-4AR: There are only fourteen in service, the others are all stored ~20.

The Mirage III/V and Dagger: 8 Finger 3B (+ 6 Stored), 3 Dagger T, 5 Mirage 5P (+ 2 Stored), 7 Mirage IIIEA (+ 9 Stored) and 2 Mirage IIIDA (+ 2 Stored).

All five B-707 are out of service

The Naval Aviation has the Super Etendard, but only a total of 12, with 7 in service and five stored.

With the current administration in power I don’t foresee any aircraft purchases. I feel that we will become like New Zealand (no jet fighters).

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Miragedriver said:

Thank you very much for the kind words regarding the bravery of the Argentine Pilots that did their duty give the poor equipment and leadership given to them. However, please refrain from calling the English “Imperialist”. They where reacting as any nation would when territory flying their flag is invaded.

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My Argentinian friend, you are being too polite when it comes to calling the English, Imperialists. The fact is that they are Imperialist still, but they like to portray themselves as educated, polite, civilized and humanitarian people. What they do not know is, that people would not forget what they have done in history.

Also, wasn't Malvinas a territory contested by Argentina as their own? Wouldn't that make the English illegal occupiers of the Islands? So wouldn't it be pointless to say that they were just "reacting when territory flying their flag, is invaded"??? No, I don't think so and further more, I believe the Malvinas Islands belong to Argentina. Even a person with no knowledge would find it wrong, when he/she looks at the world map and sees England all the way in the north of the Atlantic Ocean and Malvinas Islands way down South-West of the Atlantic Ocean, very close proximity to Argentina.

However, I will not argue with you on this, as you belong to a nation which had the courage to stand up against them. I respect that and I will honor this respect of Argentina and you, by refraining from calling the English, Imperialist.

The betrayal of the west to Argentina was a self-inflicted wound. America and France need to side with Briton due to treaty obligation and the long-standing history between them. With that said, I agree that the situation placed Argentina in a difficult situation (not only during the war, but afterwards with the embargo). It is therefore important for nations to be self sufficient in regards to national defense. Otherwise that nation becomes subject to the foreign policy whims of the nation providing the arms.

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Couldn't agree with you more, there my friend. Self-reliance and self-sufficiency is a very important capability that every nation must achieve to maintain and protect it's sovereignty.

Personally I would love to see a couple of squadrons of SU-27-30 and a superior number of either F-16’s or J-10. Wishful thinking aside the reality is that this is not going to happen. The best prospect that Argentina has is to continue the existing cooperation with Brazil. And join them in the Rafael purchase and to develop their own combat aircraft. A type of LAC or a continuation of the SAIA-90 or the Novi Avion?
The C-302 and the Yakhont would make excellent missiles to acquire, in addition to the more modern air-to-air missiles.

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I believe that Argentina can benefit from a strategic economic/military treaty with Russia and China. Both countries are looking to expand their alliances, globally. Russia has already succeeded in establishing one alliance in South America's Venezuela. I would suspect that this would also be making China interested in seeking an ally in South America.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

I have read on a number of websites and blogs, both news and defence related they the FAA has a need for updating their fleet of aircraft. This is an expensive venture. The German Luftwaffe is retiring a number of highly modified and updated F4F ICE interceptors this year. They have practically offered to give them to some neighbors. While not new the Germans have maintained them well and have a number in surplus and active use, they could possibly be had at a bargain price with all the maintenance and support equipment. The exact number still serviceable is unknown to me but it could be large enough to field a fleet of serviceable, and capable interceptors until such a time as the FAA could procure what is needed. South Korea still fly a number of F4s and these German examples have fairly modern avionics and weapons systems built on western technology. The F4 has provided a valuable service to the US and some of her allies for a while, I know it is an older airframe but it's top speed in 2.2 Mk and can carry huge amounts of ordnance and with drop tanks has a great deal of range, can take a beating in combat as well. Below is a brief description. More detailed can be found online. Through the proper military and diplomatic office I am sure a great deal of information can be obtained if inquiries were made.The German Luftwaffe initially ordered the reconnaissance RF-4E in 1969, and were retired in 1994. In 1973, under the "Peace Rhine" program, the Luftwaffe purchased the lightened and simplified F-4F which was upgraded in the mid-1980s. Germany also initiated the "ICE" (Improved Combat Efficiency) program in 1983. The 110 ICE-upgraded F-4Fs entered service in 1992, and are expected to remain in service until 2012. All the remaining Luftwaffe's Phantoms are now based at Wittmund with Jagdgeschwader 71 (fighter wing 71) in Northern Germany.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

The idea of free is very enticing, especially if Argentina could purchase some Kfir to complement the Phantoms, in high low mix. Considering that the Kfir and Phantom both use the same power plant, which would greatly simplify maintenance.

However, even if the price is free for the F-4 I do not see the acquisition proceeding for a couple of reasons:
1) I see the British government blocking the deal. Even if the Phantom is old, in large number it could be utilized as a very effective strike aircraft.
2) The platform, even if it is potent, has maybe 10-years tops max life left.
3) The retooling for maintenance on a platform with less than ten years of life would not be cost effective. That is why Argentine purchased the A-4M for the US Marine Corp back in the 1990’s to replace the older A-4A/C

One form member suggested purchasing the first generation J-10s that are now 5 to 7 years old as a replacement.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Equation said:

They do, especially on comedy movies and television shows. Since there are large number of immigrants coming from Mexico in living Texas I'm used to hearing the word Gringo as a derogatory, just slightly nowadays.

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LOL, black people call themselves niggers, would Americans living in Latin America call themselves gringos?

For example, what up gringo? hows my gringo today? or, imma shoot that mofo gringo, that gringo cut my powder too low.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?





Export Ceremony for export of Z-11 Helicopter to Argentina held on July 9, 2012. Expected arrival on September.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

ah the Argentinian airforce, well they did do a good job in 1982, did you know that during the war 6 x 1000lb bombs were diffused onboard ships which didnt explode, yes thats 1000 lb bombs, imagne the damage they would have caused had they gone off, estimates after the war suggested that between 750-1000 further UK casualties would have occured, thats 4 times the number that were killed on the UK side

and do you know the reason why the fuses didnt go off? because they were dropped from very low altitude and didnt have time to explode , they needed atleast 10-15 seconds of freefall before the bomb became armed

one such attack came in Bluff Cove Air Attacks when RFA Sir Galahad a landing ship was struck, the bomb never went off but still killed 50 people, had it, the craft would hav exploded into a fireball with hundreds on board

say what u like but the Argentinain airforce pilots were very brave and very daring