Low-cost, muti-role aircraft for small militaries

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Kurt said:

What if the Argentinians simply forget it? They can't take the Malvinas by force, nor is there a supporting population. This scheme saves a lot of money. Argentinia can possibly kill all British fighters there and occupy the islands. what then? UK submarines make it impossible to ship military supplies there and maintain military aircraft facilities by missile and special forces strikes.
The UK can take more time and hunt down all ill-supplied Argentinian soldiers. As long as Argentinia doesn't have a capable aircraft carrier the islands are off limits. Take different considerations for buying these aircrafts.

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And we are forgetting the reaction of the US; the US would back the UK over Argentina like last time and provide support to the British to retake the islands again. Likewise the French and the rest of the EU, and NATO as the Falkland Islanders are now British citizens. And Argentina will be placed back under economic sanctions which would bankrupt Argentina, again.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Kurt said:

What if the Argentinians simply forget it? They can't take the Malvinas by force, nor is there a supporting population. This scheme saves a lot of money. Argentinia can possibly kill all British fighters there and occupy the islands. what then? UK submarines make it impossible to ship military supplies there and maintain military aircraft facilities by missile and special forces strikes.
The UK can take more time and hunt down all ill-supplied Argentinian soldiers. As long as Argentinia doesn't have a capable aircraft carrier the islands are off limits. Take different considerations for buying these aircrafts.

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quiet desiel subs that sits in waters. and MPAs.
with out aircover RAF MPAs and RN surface ASW ships can not hunt down the Argentine Subs. then if they are sending astute class against the diesels and whatever asw ships argentine has then the odds are stacked against them, or atleast the task would be daunting.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

i.e. said:

quiet desiel subs that sits in waters. and MPAs.
with out aircover RAF MPAs and RN surface ASW ships can not hunt down the Argentine Subs. then if they are sending astute class against the diesels and whatever asw ships argentine has then the odds are stacked against them, or atleast the task would be daunting.

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Enough blue water for nuclear submarines to play their speed advantage. Last time the first respondents were these nuclear submarines. So the question starts with how do you get there and run supplies.
Second problem is that there are a lot more British soldiers on these islands and they did have time to prepare for a long duration resistance. With naval approach limitations, hidden stores and so on.
Third problem is the fleet in being, a concept transferred from the navy to the air force. Problem is not the current number of fighter aircrafts, but the hidden preparations for fighter aircrafts that can fly quite a long transit with refueling as long as there's a base. On an island like the Falklands, there are more than enough hiding spots and makeshift runways.

Argentinia needs an aircraft carrier to establish control of the skies and minesweepers and submarines to run supplies on militarized transports - simple civilian ships can be long distance turkey-shot with cruise missiles (spotter and shooter).
That's the price to pay for the Falklands. Some fancy land based fighters cost a lot and help very little. Better safe that money and buy something useful to press their interests - better submarines to threaten an embargo and naval fighters that can fly from a carrier and of course the carrier.
You have to see the situation in a wider context, Argentinia had two major conflicts, with Chile and the UK in order to stabilize a failing gouvernment.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Kurt said:

View attachment 6662
Enough blue water for nuclear submarines to play their speed advantage. Last time the first respondents were these nuclear submarines. So the question starts with how do you get there and run supplies.
Second problem is that there are a lot more British soldiers on these islands and they did have time to prepare for a long duration resistance. With naval approach limitations, hidden stores and so on.
Third problem is the fleet in being, a concept transferred from the navy to the air force. Problem is not the current number of fighter aircrafts, but the hidden preparations for fighter aircrafts that can fly quite a long transit with refueling as long as there's a base. On an island like the Falklands, there are more than enough hiding spots and makeshift runways.

Argentinia needs an aircraft carrier to establish control of the skies and minesweepers and submarines to run supplies on militarized transports - simple civilian ships can be long distance turkey-shot with cruise missiles (spotter and shooter).
That's the price to pay for the Falklands. Some fancy land based fighters cost a lot and help very little. Better safe that money and buy something useful to press their interests - better submarines to threaten an embargo and naval fighters that can fly from a carrier and of course the carrier.
You have to see the situation in a wider context, Argentinia had two major conflicts, with Chile and the UK in order to stabilize a failing gouvernment.

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no need to get fancy, short and sharp. as for airstripes,modern fighters can't really be supoorted from un prepared fields.
crush the Typhoons with massed J-10s , send up more airplanes then the other guys has missiles. then airborne in troops.

as for the "open ocean". once the sky is clean, what can they do to you ?? wait for you to drop some torpedos on them?

with enough resources the first wave would crush whoever is on Malvinas, and take the island over. matter of numbers.

The problem always is the expeditionary capability of Brits. they would wait for 1 month, marshal a massive task force as they did last time and retake the island.

Argentina... first and foremost, economy. with out a strong economy, one can not pay for all the military forces.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

i.e. said:

no need to get fancy, short and sharp. as for airstripes,modern fighters can't really be supoorted from un prepared fields.
crush the Typhoons with massed J-10s , send up more airplanes then the other guys has missiles. then airborne in troops.

as for the "open ocean". once the sky is clean, what can they do to you ?? wait for you to drop some torpedos on them?

with enough resources the first wave would crush whoever is on Malvinas, and take the island over. matter of numbers.

The problem always is the expeditionary capability of Brits. they would wait for 1 month, marshal a massive task force as they did last time and retake the island.

Argentina... first and foremost, economy. with out a strong economy, one can not pay for all the military forces.

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Any Argentine buildup will be detected early on and the UK will rush additional Typhoon's to the island to bolster the squadron there as deterrence.

In addition, the UK now has a very capable airlift capability that was missing during the Falklands War. The UK has longer range tankers in the Voyager's that can ferry British fighters to the area quickly compared to the Victor bombers that were retrofitted as tankers. Not to mention the RAF's fleet of 8 C-17's that can airlift troops, and equipment to the Falklands and quickly bolster the British presence and defensive capabilities on the island with additional SAM sites.

The Brits will also be able to reliably strike the Argentine mainland with Tornado's firing Storm Shadow missiles tanked up by the Voyager's coupled with submarine's firing Tomahawk missiles and the Argentine's won't have a response to that.

The Royal Navy won't be sitting still beyond their submarines; the RN maintains a permanent presence in the Falklands with either a frigate or a destroyer plus HMS Protector and the River class OPV stationed there. The RN will bolster their guard with additional ships. And once the Brits have their QE class carriers and their F-35's, the ability of the Argentinian military to project power will be severely curtailed.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

did someone really just say buy J10 from China and shot down the RAF Typhoons?? if so can you please tell the rest of us what ur smoking

how do you plan to train the pilots? Oh wait on the Nintendo Wii? Would China even sell J10 to Argentina, you don’t buy a frontline fighter and go shot down the best trained pilots in the best fighter aircraft in the world, yes the RAF, it really is the most stupid post ive ever read on this forum and you are really bringing down the standard

anyone who think Argentina can re-take Falklands today or in 10 years time must be living on a different planet, they couldn’t and didn’t do it when they were most powerful how could they do it now, and UK was weak then, now UK is more powerful and Argentina is still flying those Mirages F1s from the 1982 war, you work out the rest

and maybe think about what UK will field in a task force

QE Class Carrier with upto 40 x F35
2 x Type 45 DDGs
2-3 Type 26 FFGs
Mars Replenishment tankers
Astute Class SSN

There is no task force outside the USN that could possibly counter the above, and this includes Type 45 DDG which could probably hold off the entire Argentinian military offensive single handedly

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

asif iqbal said:

did someone really just say buy J10 from China and shot down the RAF Typhoons?? if so can you please tell the rest of us what ur smoking

how do you plan to train the pilots? Oh wait on the Nintendo Wii? Would China even sell J10 to Argentina, you don’t buy a frontline fighter and go shot down the best trained pilots in the best fighter aircraft in the world, yes the RAF, it really is the most stupid post ive ever read on this forum and you are really bringing down the standard

anyone who think Argentina can re-take Falklands today or in 10 years time must be living on a different planet, they couldn’t and didn’t do it when they were most powerful how could they do it now, and UK was weak then, now UK is more powerful and Argentina is still flying those Mirages F1s from the 1982 war, you work out the rest

and maybe think about what UK will field in a task force

QE Class Carrier with upto 40 x F35
2 x Type 45 DDGs
2-3 Type 26 FFGs
Mars Replenishment tankers
Astute Class SSN

There is no task force outside the USN that could possibly counter the above, and this includes Type 45 DDG which could probably hold off the entire Argentinian military offensive single handedly

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yeah that's exactly what I said, with the right support, and tactics, Typhoons can be shot down by J-10s. which clears way for a airborne sweep of the island.

I also said teh best deterent Brits have is an expeditionary capability. which is not contrasting to anything you said in this thread.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

Pointblank said:

In addition, the UK now has a very capable airlift capability that was missing during the Falklands War. The UK has longer range tankers in the Voyager's that can ferry British fighters to the area quickly compared to the Victor bombers that were retrofitted as tankers. Not to mention the RAF's fleet of 8 C-17's that can airlift troops, and equipment to the Falklands and quickly bolster the British presence and defensive capabilities on the island with additional SAM sites.

The Brits will also be able to reliably strike the Argentine mainland with Tornado's firing Storm Shadow missiles tanked up by the Voyager's coupled with submarine's firing Tomahawk missiles and the Argentine's won't have a response to that.

The Royal Navy won't be sitting still beyond their submarines; the RN maintains a permanent presence in the Falklands with either a frigate or a destroyer plus HMS Protector and the River class OPV stationed there. The RN will bolster their guard with additional ships. And once the Brits have their QE class carriers and their F-35's, the ability of the Argentinian military to project power will be severely curtailed.

Click to expand...

airlift and long range strike is contingent upon control of airspace. sweep their fighters from sky and the air is yours. they will not risk airlifters refuelers and strikers with out control of skys.

as for tomahawk strikes. point defense with latest russian point defense missiles is a good options, plus something like the mobile phalanx/RAM combination that protect vital nodes. (airfields and ports).

he most worrisome capability brits has is the expeditionary capability they have. given a 1-2 month lead they can gather up a carrier battle group with a amphibius assault group to retake the island. to deal with that , cheapest option is still sea denial. which means shore based AsHCM and AshBMs supoorted by long range survallence, diesel submarines, and maritime airborne anti-ship aircraft (J-10s armed with C803s)

to supoort an equivalent carrier group to battle is foolishly expensive.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

also,
long range shore based cruise missiles.

china has some of those and it is the standard shore based anti-shipping missile for PLAN. same ones on 052C airdefense destroyers. size of a TASM, tomahawk antishipping missile.
TASM has range about 500 km.

argentina can get creative. either airlift some of them on Malvinas the moment they took over stanley,
or, my favorite option...

buy some used cargo airliners, do a mod to slap some pylons underneath fuselage. carry something like 6-10 of these. work some others to carry a big (israeli) surface radar ans ESM suite. now you have a mini AVMF.

Re: New interceptors for the Argentine Air Force?

i.e. i think you have some serious mis-understandings on how war works, this is not one of ur high school computers games and not even worthy of replying, so you can think what you like, im done here