Lessons for China to learn from Ukraine conflict for Taiwan scenario

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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
That's why information war is most important. Along with morale and initial casus belli. This is where Russia fucked up. They needed to do false flag attack on Russian mainland, using Ukrainian rocket or something across the border. Then they should have done propaganda war for like week or two before they went in, allowing for surrender before that, and the whole time broadcasting that there was genocide going on in donbas. They wasted their RT america and RT assets which they had built up for years, and now they got banned without even being able to affect much.

So taking that into consideration, it starts off with say a false flag attack on mainland china. Empty shopping center, or few shopping centers, whatever. Broadcast that to the world. Generate outrage. Then broadcast that Taiwan was responsible and they crossed the line, and also do anti usa propaganda, say it was US weapons they used or whatever and that US played a role in it somehow. This is to pre empt the inevitable anti china propaganda coming from US. Being the first one to do it counts for a lot. Most don't trust usa already, and china doesn't have bad history and has built up a lot of political capital over decades, so this shouldn't be too hard. Considering that the whole world has had enough of USA's lies, iraq WMD and everything else. Shouldn't be too hard to get the world on chinas side, but the main target here is to divide Europe. That's the real fence sitter. Especially Germany and France and Italy.

All the above is to setup for invasion and regime change and to take out the threat to china's security. Broadcast this as the goal. During this time before blockade, tell everyone in Taiwan who is not an enemy to leave Taiwan RIGHT NOW. because shit will go down soon, if you stay then that is your own fault. China should set up and help anyone to leave who wants to. Setup some place in mainland to host them. If china can lockdown cities of tens of millions for covid, this should not be too hard. Ask civilians in china to help host a patriotic family from Taiwan if they can. Ain't no thing. Get as much innocents out as possible beforehand.

Then do a blockade. That is the first level of escalation. Offer them to surrender within a day, otherwise missiles will take out all Taiwan military assets and bases and other useful wartime assets like energy and comms. Even water and food. Again give another day for them to reconsider and surrender, otherwise it will move onto next phase of escalation.

If no surrender, then broadcast that china is going to level the cities and whole island if needed by X date. This is the last chance for surrender before china fully commits. After that there will be no more holding back. This will be done before PLA assaults the island. It will be done during the blockade phase, and after all the initial missiles have dropped and taken out all above ground military targets.

You offer a humanitarian escape route and broadcast to the world a safe zone anyone who wants to escape needs to go to that area. You do nonstop propaganda that Taiwan is using human shields, and taking hostages and not letting anyone leave, and arming all civilians. Show those photos that Taiwan military themselves revealed that shows them camouflaging their military vehicles as civilian trucks and cranes, and stuff like that. You offer Taiwanese citizens to surrender, and offer them Chinese citizenship, and any Taiwanese troops who surrender likewise similar offers, maybe even more. You divide the troops, you divide the people. Hopefully the people and soldiers see logic and get everyone to surrender, or even fight and overthrow their own soldiers.

During this time there will be drones hovering above nonstop, with endless loudspeaker propaganda and doing leaflet drops, and also recording and streaming any atrocities of Taiwanese troops killing their own civilians trying to leave or surrender, or even fighting Taiwanese troops. Stream and broadcast that shit to the world nonstop. If need be do false flags with double agents already planted on the island long ago pretending to be taiwan military abusing the innocent civilians and using them as human shields. It shouldn't be too hard to win the propaganda war if china gets it's shit in order. Sounds harsh but just find some civilians who support Taiwan or something. It's a war, shit happens. They made their choice which side they wanted to support.

Then after all that, whoever is left, is an enemy, and china goes in with mission to liberate the island from Taiwanese military who's oppressing their own people and using them as human. Shields.

This is the easy part. Just use overwhelming force. Use drones to counter manpads etc. China can do drone swarms and just win with more cheap suicide drones than they have ammunition for the manpads. For anything else they can just use the heavy bombers or naval assets surrounding the island from all sides. Taiwan isn't that big. China could even just setup artillery from big container ships. And bombard all the shores to clear the way for landing if they want to save their more expensive guided weapons.

The key will be drones, and mass numbers of them. China's advantage is numbers and manufacturing. China doesn't need to waste it's good stuff on Taiwan, it can save them for usa. Just use lots of cheap mass produced loitering ground attack along with suicide drones. Like those ones they use for those airshows. They are probably cheaper and easier to make than manpads and manpad ammunition.

Would be easy to clear and secure one beachhead with liberal use of drones and everything else china has in it's arsenal. Once china can secure landing zone it's game over. Boots on the ground just need to mop up and clear out the cities, or what's left of them if they refused to surrender. If Taiwan chooses to fight and be like Grozny, so be it, they made their choice. For everyone else they can relocate and live on the mainland while china rebuilds taiwan.

Just curious. How long do you guys think Taiwan could hold out if china blockaded it after destroying everything on the surface including energy, water, and food production/stocks? Could Taiwan even feed/sustain itself?
Here's the thing: Russia didn't need to false flag, Ukraine was already shelling them in Donbass. They already were hitting civilians. RT reported on it. It got ignored because mainstream media downplayed it as some minor low intensity war.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
APS would be good to have, but it’s too passive and limited for my liking.

If you roll a tank into an urban area without proper support and recon, no APS is going to save you from a line of guys taking turns to throw RPG/ATGMs your way.

This is why I favour drones.

Have ground combat vehicles and automatics grenade launcher quadcopters go in first to clear out the ambushers or at least make them waste the ammo on the drones and expose themselves for the tanks and IFVs to engage.

I think the mobile laser based anti-drone systems China is development have great potential as anti-ATGM units at longer ranges with some more development and improvements. I think investing in something like that to act as dedicated missile defences for armour units would be far more effective and efficient than spamming APS on every armour vehicle that don’t really deal with top attack munitions effectively anyways.

As an added bonus, such laser defence systems would also be highly effective against drones.

Speak of the devil.

Rumor has it that the turret has already been mass produced.

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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Using flying grenade drones aka CH-817 (weight 850 grams/28 ounce) in urban warfare is far more effective than using tanks and IFV. CH-817 can be used for recon and attack.

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Flying grenades drones as a part of a swarm system compromising of EW, mounted smgs/long-range rifles, rockets, thermal/optical/etc sensor drones is the way to go for urban warfare in the future.

You put all these together in a vehicle, bring 5 of them together, and then launch everything to clear a block, move forward, repeat.

And that's only with one swarm system, you can have swarms in the tactical level for clearing a block, swarms for monitoring multiple blocks, districts, and eventually the whole city.

In the informationised era we need to be creative and use cutting edge technologies to create new warfighting concepts

A soldier's life is many times more valuable than a cheap mass produced small drone. If the opponent wants to bait PLA into using meat grinder tactics, we can happily oblige them and throw countless mass produced cheap drones against them

We can blob the sky over a city with ultra cheap drones if necessary
 

B.I.B.

Captain
Flying grenades drones as a part of a swarm system compromising of EW, mounted smgs/long-range rifles, rockets, thermal/optical/etc sensor drones is the way to go for urban warfare in the future.

You put all these together in a vehicle, bring 5 of them together, and then launch everything to clear a block, move forward, repeat.

And that's only with one swarm system, you can have swarms in the tactical level for clearing a block, swarms for monitoring multiple blocks, districts, and eventually the whole city.


In the informationised era we need to be creative and use cutting edge technologies to create new warfighting concepts

A soldier's life is many times more valuable than a cheap mass produced small drone. If the opponent wants to bait PLA into using meat grinder tactics, we can happily oblige them and throw countless mass produced cheap drones against them

We can blob the sky over a city with ultra cheap drones if necessary
I have a question. What would one have to do to counter these mass drone attacks?
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
I have a question. What would one have to do to counter these mass drone attacks?
I should note that different systems would be used against high-tech and low-tech opponents.

Against low-tech opponents (Talibal level) I don't see much they can do except operationally improvising in a certain degree to somewhat reduce their effectiveness. In the end though, they would still lose.

Against high-tech opponents there many things to be careful such as air superiority, EW, small portable automatic anti-drone systems, opponents using their own swarms against your swarms etc.

This field is still too early for us to have a clear view on the countermeasures. However, I would guess that given the PLA is investing so much in drone/swarm technologies, they must have also thought about how to counter them.
 
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