Lessons for China to learn from Ukraine conflict for Taiwan scenario

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FriedButter

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So hypothetically, if US establishes formal embassy level relationship, so China go to war with Taiwan and risk economic disruptions? I think so long as there is no nukes/troops/bases/alliance, who cares. We can't be going to war over every single salami slicing provocation, it's exactly what US wants while it's still economically and militarily dominant and China still growing.

If formal embassy relations with the US is salami slicing then why not outright independence as well? Pushing for name change sure is salami slicing but formal relations is different and the West will take it as a signal to push for it. Might as well say China shouldn’t response until it’s becomes an interstellar empire across 50 star systems.
 
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Abominable

Major
Registered Member
An island is one of the worst places to fight guerilla warfare. It is cutoff from all sides by something called sea water. Successful insurgencies happen in places like Vietnam or Afghanistan, where friendly neighboring powers could supply the guerillas.
Not to mention there's been zero guerrilla warfare in Ukraine so far. The Ukrainian army using American supplied ATGMs or MANPADS is not guerrilla warfare.

It's literally the last place I'd look if I wanted to learn about it. They seem to be getting all their strategies from reddit posts.
 

KYli

Brigadier
So hypothetically, if US establishes formal embassy level relationship, so China go to war with Taiwan and risk economic disruptions? I think so long as there is no nukes/troops/bases/alliance, who cares. We can't be going to war over every single salami slicing provocation, it's exactly what US wants while it's still economically and militarily dominant and China still growing.

I agree China should push back and stand firm to not show weakness, maybe sometimes blister with war, but war should be the very last resort. I don't want to see China get sanctioned like Russia. Best wait to be economic mature and developed first.
It depends upon if it is Lithuania like Taiwan informal embassy or actual embassy. If it were the former, China still has room to maneuver. If it is later, then anything short of end of diplomacy relationship between the US and China would appear weak.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Tank gun elevation and line of sight may be limited in urban situations. Plus ATGMs.
This is what PLL-05 Gun Mortar is designed for. High elevation, better range, now has Beidou guided rounds.

US used guided infantry mortars in a similar way.

Latest Zhuhai show also showed smaller drone rockets for “sniping”. Actually showed in the slide show popping into a high rise with a small CH-3 size drone.
So hypothetically, if US establishes formal embassy level relationship, so China go to war with Taiwan and risk economic disruptions? I think so long as there is no nukes/troops/bases/alliance, who cares. We can't be going to war over every single salami slicing provocation, it's exactly what US wants while it's still economically and militarily dominant and China still growing.

I agree China should push back and stand firm to not show weakness, maybe sometimes bluster with war, but war should be the very last resort. I don't want to see China get sanctioned like Russia. Best wait to be economically mature and developed first.
US already has Taiwan Cultural Office, so do most other Western countries. Any formal embassy would mean US elevation state to state relations, so violation of one-China policy. Even Taiwan knows this.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
If formal embassy relations with the US is salami slicing then why not outright independence as well?
That is just a useless formality. US regularly violates 'One China' principle with arm-sales to Taiwan, Trump recieved Tsai Ing-wen's congratulatory phone call, and there are regular high-level visits by US lawmakers to Taiwan. With exception of 'in name', Taiwan is defacto independent at this point. If US elevates embassy relations, then cut off diplomatic relations, not war.

The issue is whether US will weaponize China's sensitivity to bait it into a war that will tank Chinese GDP as it enters into a critical decade and overtake US. US is still militarily/economically dominant, so the next 5-10 year window is closing where it can stop China from eclipsing US as the #1 economic superpower. China shouldn't take any bait and not go to war. At best, cut off diplomatic relations.

Pushing for name change sure is salami slicing but formal relations is different and the West will take it as a signal to push for it.
If West elevates to embassy level and push for alliance/troops/bases/nukes on Taiwan, then definitely go to war. If West just wants an embassy level, then cut off diplomatic relations (but not war). If Taiwan declares independence formally, then definitely go to war.
Might as well say China shouldn’t response until it’s becomes an interstellar empire across 50 star systems.
Exactly. The only trigger for war should be: a) there is an alliance/troops/bases/nukes on Taiwan, or b) Taiwan formally declares independence, and c) wait until global WW3, let's pummel Taiwan, reunify, and restart the world from scratch so everyone is rebuilding society in equal footing. So China might never reunify with Taiwan in the next 100 years or longer, which might be fine. Taiwan-China trade is mutually beneficial and status quo seems to work well for both sides.... but US doesn't like that and wants to disrupt China's rise by baiting it into war so it can sanction the living shit out of it like it does with Russia.

US already has Taiwan Cultural Office, so do most other Western countries. Any formal embassy would mean US elevation state to state relations, so violation of one-China policy. Even Taiwan knows this.

US only 'acknowledges' One-China policy, it never formally accepts China's interpretation of sovereignty over Taiwan island. China is fine with that, even begrudgingly tolerates US arm-sales to Taiwan which also violates 'One China policy'. At best, cut off diplomatic relations with US if they elevate embassy relations, but don't go to war (yet). If Taiwan formally declares independence, then go to war. If there is alliance/troops/bases/nukes, then go to war. At this point, embassy names is a superficial and can be weaponized to trigger an oversensitive Chinese response and bait it into war at a bad timing. China should decide war on it's own timing and on it's own terms, not dictated by impulsive desperate declining power.
 
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Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Most violence against asians are carried out by other minorities such as black people, who are actually more likely to be democrats than right wing republicans.
So why do most academic publications find that 75% of anti-Asian hate incidents are perpetuated by Whites in 1992-2014, and 75% of anti-Asian incidents were by white in 2020?

While there is limited data about who commits hate crimes, the national statistics that do exist routinely show that perpetrators are most often white. That extends to those committing anti-Asian incidents as well, where a
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and a separate
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both found that around 75% of offenders were white.
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Btw, most anti-Asian hate incidents in NYC are black/latino offenders, because Bronx and Brooklyn are overwhelmingly African-American and Hispanic communities, so more in absolute number in hate incidents. When you look at the entire nation, whites are the largest offenders because of the sheer numbers.
 

Century2030

Junior Member
Registered Member
Most Asian Americans are living in blue Democrat states which are lax on crime and is home to other minorities as well. Not a lot of AAPI are in the red Republican states. Plus with the media constantly smearing China/Chinese people for covid, trade war, hacking, IP theft, Xinjiang, etc.. Asians have essentially become the #1 scapegoat with a HUGE bullseye on the back.

TBH, it's not going to get better anytime soon. In fact it will get worse as the economy goes downhill..

economy turns into sh*t -> people lose their jobs/homes -> become angry and unhinged -> blames Asians due to media influence -> lash out in real life
 
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