Lessons for China to learn from Ukraine conflict for Taiwan scenario

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Maikeru

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I just wondering, i am really curious to be honest, everybody talks about how the u.s, japan, australia and even possibly south korea is going to tag team China in taiwan armed reunification scenario, but nobody talks about how north korea might react in such a big war in east asia,

I wrote about this on breaking news thread, NK is the only country in which China has nato style article 2 defence treaty, so on paper NK is obliged to join the war on China side as taiwan is recognised by NK as China territory especially if the war is instigated by the u.s and japan, so staying neutral is not on option for NK if they follow The China-DPRK Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance, to the letter. This war is also existential to NK i think, because if China is defeated, they will lose their only patron and economic lifeline, not to mention they will be next on the chopping block, so i would say neutrality is not on the table for them

So what do you guys think NK involvement in taiwan AR could be? If SK militarily involved, full armed reunification on korean peninsula? if SK stays neutral, harrasing japan with hwasong cruise missile attacks?
If Japan joins the war on the US side I can see NK allowing overflight by PLAAF aircraft and missiles attacking Japan, although this might be on an "oh no, we couldn't stop them because our air defences are so outdated, BTW if you attack us we'll nuke you" basis.
 

Biscuits

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If Japan joins the war on the US side I can see NK allowing overflight by PLAAF aircraft and missiles attacking Japan, although this might be on an "oh no, we couldn't stop them because our air defences are so outdated, BTW if you attack us we'll nuke you" basis.
NK is bound to defend China as much as the reverse is true.

If its central government army alone vs KMT army alone, NK are not obliged to help because China is not being attacked by a foreign state. But the moment any third party like US or Japan joins in, NK will do something.

If SK stays strictly neutral, it's true that NK can't contribute all that much, but they can still be used. They can add a bit of missile firepower, and their special forces could help during eventual landing operations.
 

kkccoo11

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Someone said China could wait for USA to collapse. How long? USA will make sure it forces Taiwan to declaim independence before anything happens to itself.
 

Mohsin77

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When you say IR illuminator, you actually mean IR lasers.

I meant both, all forms of NV illumination in general actually (not just for the infantry either, but even gunships/vehicles can provide IR illumination to ground forces).

The point was that illumination works both ways, like tracers, and all the wars which have used them so far have been those in which only 1 side was NV capable.

You can also massively change that equation with thermals. Chinese thermal vision tech is right up there with the best the west has to offer. If you dual mount even a cheap gen2+ IIT NOD with a high end thermal, you have way better situational awareness than the best gen3+ IIT dual tube NODs (this is why combined IIT and thermal units are the future of night vision).

IITs are not magic, they just allow you to see almost as good in night as day, but if something is well camouflaged, you will have just as hard a time spotting it with NODs as you would during the day with your MK1 eyeball. It’s just most wildlife move around at night whereas they would stay still during the day, so that makes it much easier to spot them, but people are not so stupid. Thermals are ‘magic’ in that the best camouflage and fieldcraft won’t do you much good against thermals. So, throw in some helmet mounted thermals and your typical squad using mostly cheap digital night vision plus dedicated night scopes will have far superior situational awareness and combat effectiveness as an enemy squad all with the very best IIT dual tubes and IR lasers while coming in at the same if not lower cost overall.

Now, you might have some zero creep from uninstalling and reinstalling the night scope, but while you won’t be winning any shooting competitions due to this, it should still be perfectly useable for combat (the whole point of pict rail and QD mounts after all), and almost certainly more precise and longer ranged than either IR laser or red dot aiming.

Another problem with IR laser aiming is that it can get very distracting, even overwhelming, if you got dozens or even hundred of guys all waving their IR lasers around.

That's true and I agree, thermals would be the way to go in a modern peer war. If China has a higher penetration of thermals in its infantry it will have an advantage in infantry engagements. Although, I'm not sure about the drawbacks of thermals with regards to battery requirements though, it would consume more power and is more expensive in general, but if China has made thermals efficient and mass produced them for its infantry, that's kool. I'm not sure how good the US infantry is with thermal penetration, it's probably not that common right now.

All of this is kind of a moot point anyway for the US/Taiwan/China war though, even though it's an interesting problem set for the infantry to deal with, infantry is going to be basically irrelevant in such a war.
 

theforgotten0007

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Someone said China could wait for USA to collapse. How long? USA will make sure it forces Taiwan to declaim independence before anything happens to itself.
Maybe.

For that to work though, US will need to convince the current ROC government to declare independence and its allies (preferably all of Nato states for sufficient traction) to stake their support at the same time. When do you reckon this will happen and how do you think the optics will look?

Let's refer to these world maps on the Russo/ukraine conflict for reference:
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as we've seen from German's continued gas imports from Russia. Are countries whose largest trade partner is China willing to put their money where their mouth is? Or leaving aside ideology, think you can beat the free market?
 

bebops

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Someone said China could wait for USA to collapse. How long? USA will make sure it forces Taiwan to declaim independence before anything happens to itself.
Even if Taiwan declares independence today, china will not rush to war right now. China will wait until the time is ripe before it starts a war. Ukraine is an independent country but it doesn't make a difference. War still happens. It is best for china to get a truckload of type 95, 96, 055a, winglong 3, loyalman drone, uuv, hypersonic drone, dark sword, many nukes etc before they go to war. The year 2035 is when china modernized itself with these new weapons. In 2040 china has to ability to push US all the way back to hawaii. US has 7 shipyards while china has 17 shipyards. How can you compete
US has the watch but China has the time
 

bebops

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Even if Taiwan declares independence today, china will not rush to war right now. China will wait until the time is ripe before it starts a war. Ukraine is an independent country but it doesn't make a difference. War still happens. It is best for china to get a truckload of type 95, 96, 055a, winglong 3, loyalman drone, uuv, hypersonic drone, dark sword, many nukes etc before they go to war. The year 2035 is when china modernized itself with these new weapons. In 2040 china has to ability to push US all the way back to hawaii. US has 7 shipyards while china has 17 shipyards. How can you compete
US has the watch but China has the time
Independence means nothing. It doesn't make your gdp double instantly or 10xstronger. In the history of mankind sovereign country gets invaded or beaten to a pulp. The mongols invaded a full sovereign china back in the 1300s too
 

bebops

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There are only three ways an empire or country collapse.

1. High racial diversity. 2. Broke and wanted an political overhaul 3. Beaten to a pulp by another country.

USA break apart is due to high racial diversity.
 
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