Lessons for China to learn from Ukraine conflict for Taiwan scenario

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FriedButter

Colonel
Registered Member
There are only three ways an empire or country collapse.

1. High racial diversity. 2. Broke and wanted an political overhaul 3. Beaten to a pulp by another country.

USA break apart is due to high racial diversity.

Oh I am sure if Alaska declared independences with the backing of China there would not be a political and internal crisis in Washington if they decide to wait 20 years.
 

Kobol

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Can't China just embargo Taiwanese trade immediately if they declare independence? And put secondary sanctions on anyone who trades with Taiwan. Ban all travel, seize all assets and make Taiwan a pariah

Obviously this will all be a prelude to armed reunification unless Taiwan capitulates but we'll see how countries are forced to choose
 

bebops

Junior Member
Registered Member
Oh I am sure if Alaska declared independences with the backing of China there would not be a political and internal crisis in Washington if they decide to wait 20 years.

We know by 2050, the white race is no longer a majority. Its a minority. To me, U.S is more like an extension of Europe. Right now, majority of White holds position in Congress or political positions, army and police force. If the White racial group loses power in Congress, Police force, Army, and Top wealth due to diversity, U.S will no longer function as 50 States.

In Cali and Texas, the racial demographics is 40% latinos. By 2075, Latinos demographic in Texas and Cali will likely increase to 75-80%. That means Mexico can reclaim Cali or Texas due to the will of the population or break off as independent states. If your politicians, police force and army are all Latinos, they can make a law to request a break off from the mainland. By 2100, The white population is only 25% if U.S still exist in tact. It will be chaos and alot of racial turmoil.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Even if Taiwan declares independence today, china will not rush to war right now. China will wait until the time is ripe before it starts a war. Ukraine is an independent country but it doesn't make a difference. War still happens. It is best for china to get a truckload of type 95, 96, 055a, winglong 3, loyalman drone, uuv, hypersonic drone, dark sword, many nukes etc before they go to war. The year 2035 is when china modernized itself with these new weapons. In 2040 china has to ability to push US all the way back to hawaii. US has 7 shipyards while china has 17 shipyards. How can you compete
US has the watch but China has the time
Of course China will defend its own ground. The only scenario where Taiwan can leave and there won't be immediate devastating consequence is if the whole National Congress votes to create laws specifically to release them and/or even a general referendum across the whole nation shows overwhelming support of China leaving Taiwan. Which are about as likely to happen as the entire US electorate collage voting for CPUSA.

For a start, China might not necessarily immediate go to full head hunting rebel leaders and knocking out everything they can see, they might only opt for be a complete cutoff of Taiwan, like what Israel does to the West Bank. But pretty quickly, if the declaration of war against the legitimate government isn't immediately retracted and followed by new negotiations, the PLA will fully move out.
 

Atomicfrog

Major
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We should still look at things accurately. Threats of invasion are not the same as guarantee of invasion. The USSR threatened to invade west Germany many times, yet the cold war came to an end without that happening.

If US actually pulls off a Taiwan invasion or even a broader invasion of China's periphery in the SCS and ECS as well, depends on way more factors than some US politicians being hardliners and making threats.

I think the most telling point against an invasion is the fact that US did not do it before when China was weak. Back in the early 2000s and 1990s, China could only use tactical nukes and diesel subs to defend itself if US came at them. Yet US didn't risk it back then.

While back then, US threatened an attack because they were strong, now they're doing it to distract from weakness at home. While if the right mix of warmongers and militarists rose to power in Washington, provocation can turn into a real war, it is far from guaranteed that this will happen.

Besides using its industry to continue the porcupine strategy which deters direct war, China's strategy should be to set up the global chessboard to prevent militarists from taking Washington. That means making the right amount of threats and moves, but also appropriate concessions when needed.

China needs to leave enough of a lifeline to US so that the militarists don't successfully convince everyone else that they're in an "use it or lose it" scenario. At the same time, they can also use profitable proxy conflicts to channel the militarists away from thinking in terms of total war, which has the effect of making them more unpopular in the eyes of the population.
The decision of going in or not is on China to bear the consequences of both choices. The US will not pull off a Taiwan invasion if there's not some kind of coup in Taiwan and pro-China government take the helm. The statu-quo is way better for them, slowly taking assets from Taiwan and giving the US occasions of messing with China. I would see an invasion of North Korea way more interesting for them to start a conflict in the region.

If China choose to go in and take Taiwan they need to do it quick and decisively. A blockade and some kind of coercision will only play in the US hands. Going in half handed and waiting to see if something will make Taiwan crumble or not is clearly what have happened in Ukraine and it's a total mess. Taiwan forces will encroaches themselves and most infrastructures will be loss. Will give time for help to arrive. Learning of Ukraine would give a giant stop to think like that.

It need to be a massive military and communication infrastructure strike. China need to go in full yolo, topple anything at the head and put feet everywhere on the ground by any means possibles, faster as possible. Going all out with paratroopers units and by sea and cut off all possibilities of reinforcements. Seeing flights of 20 or more Y-20 in the ADIZ practicing with electronic warfare aircrafts would be a good indication of things to come if they go that way.
 

a0011

New Member
Registered Member
Yes, I like the idea of taking Penghu and the deploy rockets and artillery there before taking taiwan proper !!
If your arty can hit them, theirs can also hit you. except you are a much easier target for massed arty due to being on a small island with constraints on how dispersed you can deploy your systems. Think snake island

although Penghu is much larger, I feel bad for the poor souls thatwill eventually be tasked to shell Taiwan from there.

If your arty can hit them, theirs can also hit you. except you are a much easier target for massed arty due to being on a small island with constraints on how dispersed you can deploy your systems. Think snake island

although Penghu is much larger, I feel bad for the poor souls thatwill eventually be tasked to shell Taiwan from there. Counter artillery would be savage
 

phrozenflame

Junior Member
Registered Member
How does China intend to protect trillions in dollars of the investments of the govt (bonds/reserves) and it's citizens outside Chinese border?

We are seeing in case of Russia, everything will just be taken.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
How does China intend to protect trillions in dollars of the investments of the govt (bonds/reserves) and it's citizens outside Chinese border?

We are seeing in case of Russia, everything will just be taken.
there are quite a few trillions invested in China as well... Yeah, if there's a serious conflict, you can bet, everything will be taken.

one side has a lot of greenbacks and the other has a lot of factories and steel. We'll both steal trillions from each other! Lets see who suffers more!
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
The decision of going in or not is on China to bear the consequences of both choices. The US will not pull off a Taiwan invasion if there's not some kind of coup in Taiwan and pro-China government take the helm. The statu-quo is way better for them, slowly taking assets from Taiwan and giving the US occasions of messing with China. I would see an invasion of North Korea way more interesting for them to start a conflict in the region.

If China choose to go in and take Taiwan they need to do it quick and decisively. A blockade and some kind of coercision will only play in the US hands. Going in half handed and waiting to see if something will make Taiwan crumble or not is clearly what have happened in Ukraine and it's a total mess. Taiwan forces will encroaches themselves and most infrastructures will be loss. Will give time for help to arrive. Learning of Ukraine would give a giant stop to think like that.

It need to be a massive military and communication infrastructure strike. China need to go in full yolo, topple anything at the head and put feet everywhere on the ground by any means possibles, faster as possible. Going all out with paratroopers units and by sea and cut off all possibilities of reinforcements. Seeing flights of 20 or more Y-20 in the ADIZ practicing with electronic warfare aircrafts would be a good indication of things to come if they go that way.
The status quo is not good for US at all, otherwise they would not be trying their hardest to try and change it.

The mainland does not rely on Taiwan for its economy, not even 1% of it. If you read carefully, you will see that when the communist government reports their economy, they do not include areas occupied by KMT. Economy was never part of the calculus.

So no matter how much assets US think they can steal from there, as long as the land itself remains Chinese, it's value for China remains the same.

It is America that wants to take over the separatist areas, that is their main if not only condition to have a fighting chance in the Cold War game. Left to its own devices, China will eventually with extreme ease get rid of KMT through negotiation, force or a mix of both. Like LDPR is powerless without Russia, KMT is powerless without America.

Regarding how exactly China counters the rebel presence, it would depend if they come at the government alone or while the threat of a foreign invasion looms. If an US invasion is predicted, then China would likely act as you say, with total strikes at everything that moves. Because the priority then is to ensure that even if the unthinkable worst case happens and US succeeds, they will be left a scorched and useless land.

If its a relatively calm scenario, it can start with an embargo and then change as time goes on. The strategy would vary depending on the size of threat facing China.
 

drowingfish

Junior Member
Registered Member
If your arty can hit them, theirs can also hit you. except you are a much easier target for massed arty due to being on a small island with constraints on how dispersed you can deploy your systems. Think snake island

although Penghu is much larger, I feel bad for the poor souls thatwill eventually be tasked to shell Taiwan from there.
in reality Taiwan would not concentrate its long range arty to the south to bombard penghu. penghu is also much much bigger than snake island and is inhabited, you simply cannot compare the two.
 
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