For the battery portion, Japan isn't exactly leading edge in batteries or EV. The top tier batteries are from China - CATL and BYD.
The only advantage can be in shaping and acoustic dampening, but none of that is particularly new.
Keep in mind that Soryu subs have the largest pressure hull of any diesel subs out there. It shouldn't surprise anyone that they are the most capable diesel subs in the world. Collins class is another one that was really good when it first came out because of how large it is.
I'm actually really frustrated by China's progress on diesel subs. btw, there is actually no convincing evidence they are using lithium ion batteries on any Yuan boat.
While China has made a lot of progress in batteries, most of that really came since 2015. The technology has progressed so much in the past 3 or 4 years. If they were to design a new sub today with the latest battery technology, electric drive train and power chips that are available and have really larger inner hull, then I agree that it would be really quiet. But they haven't built any new conventional subs outside of a couple of what I see as test or one-off subs. I'd love to see an enlarged version of the single hull, modern sail that we saw recently.
If by 093A, you are talking about the original pair of Type 093 boats launched between 2000-2002, I would agree they are nowhere near the noise level of the USN's 688i. But the later variants in the class are considered by many Western analysts to be a big improvement over the original 093 - and analogous to the 688i. These include high-rolling defence think tanks, e.g. CSIS and Centre for New American Security. I do not necessarily believe they have hard info on actual noise levels of the later 093 variants, but probably made these assessments based on technological developments. So, it is probably fair to say most of the Shang class are somewhat competitive - at least coming close to the 688i. The 688i is of course by no means a world-leading SSN nowadays, and is not representative of the improved capabilities of the newest USN SSNs.
Not possible. The original 093s were not that much quieter than 091s. There were major improvements in reactor safety, seaworthiness and speed of 091. But fundamentally, 406/407 weren't much quieter than 405. They were definitely louder than the Sturgeons. That's why they stopped producing them after that. The 093a boats were launched in the early 2010s. There are still some real issues:
1) The hull itself is too small (Keep in mind that Kilo class has a 10m beam and probably 8+m beam in pressure hull. 093 has at most 11m beam and probably 8.6m beam in pressure hull. The machines in nuclear boats produce a lot more noise than a diesel sub, so need more space) to fit any good sound absorbers, raft.
2) The machines that produce the most noise are the steam generators and all the stuff in the secondary loop like turbines, generators and reduction gears and such. Those things take very precise machineries to be quiet. Unfortunately, China's abilities in this area really didn't pick up until recent years as we saw with their production of modern turbofan/turboshaft engines/gas turbines. Recently, Yankee/Shilao commented on just how quiet Z-20 was compared to earlier Chinese helicopters. This is an area that really takes very high technology production level. That's something China did not achieve on consistent basis until well after 093A production started. Conversely, turbofan engines/gas turbine technology was always the strongest with US/UK. They also happen to have the quietest nuclear submarines. Not a coincidence. That's what 100 years of industrial base buys you. It's far easier to catch up/surpass in missiles/radar technology vs engine/precision machinery technology.
3) Reactor technology is too old. This will get fixed with 095 since they have ACPR50S now. But there are real limitations to 093 due to where China's reactor technology was back in the 90s when 093 was first designed. The difference between 1994 and now is night and day if you think about it.
As such, Shilao and company were talking about needing to skip a generation to get to Virginia class. Even then, they were pessimistic about 095 completely catching up to latest American SSN. So if the initial 095s are as quiet as the initial Virginia class and current Yasen class, that's a big success. If they are somewhere between last 688 boats and the initial Virginia boats, things are still okay. Over 8 to 10 years (so by 2035), I'd expect 095s to be pretty close to the noise level of block 4 Virginia class that's joining service now and superior to Yasen class. If they have to skip a generation to get to something in Virginia class level, then it reasons they think 093A/B are roughly somewhere in Sturgeon class level in noise level.
They talked about how 093 is just too small to fit the stuff needed to be really quiet. As such, 093B is a "GuoDu" class. 095 is where all the hope is.
When 003 was launched recently, Xi Yazhou mentioned that the next time he will get this emotional/excited is when 095 gets launched. That's the hope that the entire PLAN holds toward 095 right now. It's more important than 003, 004, 052D, 055, Type 075/076. I cannot imagine a bigger difference maker for PLAN than a successful 095 production run. It's on the same level strategically as J-20, ASBM/hypersonic missiles and H-20.
Btw, what Shilao/Yankee said about 093/095 pretty much matches up to what I hear from Western sources that I trust. Maybe Westerners are more dismissive of China's ability to catch up, but the assessment of the initial 093s and 093As are pretty similar.
I don't know the exact wording HI Sutton used to make the call that the 039C is not even as good as the Lada class (was he actually that specific?). Hard data on the noise levels of SSKs are rare and are difficult to compare, and much depends on the speed of the boat at the time of measurement. But there are good reasons to believe the 039C (and even the 039B) is better than the Lada. For example, the AIP on the Lada has been discarded due to delays in the fuel-cell AIP research, and the Russian government is choosing to build more of the Improved Kilo II instead of mass producing the Lada. In general, I think the 039A, B and C have important advantages over Russian SSKs - the Yuans are much more suitable for open ocean deployment due to the presence of flank array sonars and an overall larger pressure hull, compared to boats like the Kilos.
hmm, Kilo class is over 1m wider than Yuan class. They are pretty big. In fact, PLAN got some of the quietest Kilo subs were produced (basically there was the pre/post-Toshiba Kilo class). Notice how they retired the 2 Project 873, but the 636s are all still around? There were far quieter than the Indian/Soviet Kilo class of Cold War era. In fact, they are even quieter than the initial Lada boat. That's why RN kept building kilos for themselves. Now, it is possible that with more modern electric drive, battery and machinery, the more recent Yuan class are as quiet as Kilo class. But in general, it takes big technology improvement to make up for the difference of over 1m shorter beam. Keep in mind, that would still put Yuan at the same level as Type 212/Scorpene in noise level, that's why we've seen Yuan scoring export deals with Thai and Pakistan Navy.
I'm just disappointed that after a success Yuan class that came out in mid 2000s, they have no come out with a new and larger design. The fact that they mass produced it indicated that they were happy with the design. Similarly, when Song came out, it was a very successful design at the time. If you asked people in USN back in late 2000s, they would've said conventional subs were the strong point of PLAN. Now you ask the same people, they'd say submarine as a whole is PLAN's weak point. That just shows they have not made a generational improvement here like they've done everywhere else.
Again, with where they are in electric train, lithium ion batteries and power chips, this might be the best time to come out with a large new single hull, mini-sail conventional sub design.
I do not have a strong view on how the later Yuans compare to the Japanese SSKs, but I do think there is an ingrained belief in the West that Japanese subs are very good, and this belief disguises the nuances in an unhelpful way. The later Soryus and the Taigei are likely to be very quiet and capable. But the early boats like the Oyashios do not have fairly basic stuff like X-rudder or AIP, let alone lithium-ion. The early Soryus are also known to be easily detected by the MPAs of the USN. In contrast to the Japanese, the Chinese SSKs do not hold the same reputation, even though strictly speaking the people shaping these views do not have enough information to make a strict comparison. So there is a certain bias in how people view Japanese subs versus Chinese ones. I would be somewhat surprised if the Oyashios and the early Soryus are actually significantly more capable than the later Yuans.
Why do you need X-rudder or AIP to be quiet? Oyashio class was widely regarded as the quietest diesel sub by the submarine community when it first came out. Soryu/Taigei class only improved on that. They all also happen to be the largest diesel subs ever built. Without knowing the details of certain exercises, it's hard to know why certain boat held an advantage. Certainly, diesel subs can get lucky and land a score on 688i class. USN does not blindly ping with MPAs. If they detected Soryu class, they were cued up.
