Lessons for China to learn from Ukraine conflict for Taiwan scenario

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
Even with a huge build up in cruise missiles, there is still finite number of them that you'd want to keep around for a wider conflict. As such, you want to use EW/ARMs to suppress air defense in a place where you know you can overwhelm the air defense. Ideally, you don't expand more than the SRBM a few CM. Those should be used to give PLAAF time to get in the air and do what it needs to do. From that point, they need 24/7 EW aircraft coverage and psychological warfare coverage over the top

That may be too dogmatic, given the changing landscape of capabilities. Manned fixed wing assets are even more finite and the overall SEAD/DEAD strike package that relies on them could be more expensive and higher risk than using drone swarms and CMs. Point being: the 'golden ratio' would depend on the path you choose to take, and that path needs to depend on the relative capabilities and resources etc.
 

solarz

Brigadier
If China actually:

1) inform the soldiers more than 24 hours before the actual invasion of Taiwan
2) use more sophisticated communication devices than taobao ham radio sets.

It would have done a better job already than Russians in Ukraine. Sad, but true.

I have my doubts as to the veracity of #1.

As for #2, you have to play the hand you're dealt with. It's no secret that Russia's military have lots of issues, which they haven't exactly been successful at resolving.
 

Lnk111229

Junior Member
Registered Member
If China actually:

1) inform the soldiers more than 24 hours before the actual invasion of Taiwan
2) use more sophisticated communication devices than taobao ham radio sets.

It would have done a better job already than Russians in Ukraine. Sad, but true.
Maybe i am naive. But i think when time come reunification i think PRC and whoever in charge of CPC will do "proper" and "classical" way. They will declare Special Operation. Put up No fly Zone, block island all side on sea. And give island like day to few day to surrender. So civilians who dont want invovle can hide in home, shelter. Put up peace mark, panted or raise PRC flag. Or even go to mainland if they want. The surprise element in this case is no need. After all when PRC know very well Taiwan the Taiwan also know PRC very well either. Also Taiwan Intel know their island so they know where PLA will hit, key target, overall strategy. Just my two cent.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Maybe i am naive. But i think when time come reunification i think PRC and whoever in charge of CPC will do "proper" and "classical" way. They will declare Special Operation. Put up No fly Zone, block island all side on sea. And give island like day to few day to surrender. So civilians who dont want invovle can hide in home, shelter. Put up peace mark, panted or raise PRC flag. Or even go to mainland if they want. The surprise element in this case is no need. After all when PRC know very well Taiwan the Taiwan also know PRC very well either. Also Taiwan Intel know their island so they know where PLA will hit, key target, overall strategy. Just my two cent.

Then you'd be falling into the same trap as Putin. You are expecting a best case scenario and basing your whole operation strategy around it, which is hubris.

The responsible thing would be going in assuming the worst case scenario and informing the Chinese people that the fight will not be easy, similar to how the US military played up the threat of the "Republican Guards" before the first Gulf War. It is better to fight a rabbit expecting it to be a bear than it is to fight a jackal expecting it to be a rabbit.
 

FriedButter

Colonel
Registered Member
Maybe i am naive. But i think when time come reunification i think PRC and whoever in charge of CPC will do "proper" and "classical" way. They will declare Special Operation. Put up No fly Zone, block island all side on sea. And give island like day to few day to surrender. So civilians who dont want invovle can hide in home, shelter. Put up peace mark, panted or raise PRC flag. Or even go to mainland if they want. The surprise element in this case is no need. After all when PRC know very well Taiwan the Taiwan also know PRC very well either. Also Taiwan Intel know their island so they know where PLA will hit, key target, overall strategy. Just my two cent.
Don’t half ass a major war where the results will change a nation. Either go all in or you don’t go in at all. The belief they will just give up is unrealistic due to just how humans work. You don’t know what they will do. If their response is subpar than that’s the best but if it isn’t then your response won’t be weaken because you decided not to do it properly.
 
Last edited:

Jingle Bells

Junior Member
Registered Member
You don’t half ass a major war. Either go all in or you don’t go in at all. Your belief they will simply just give up is unrealistic. If their response is subpar than that’s the best but if it isn’t then your response won’t be weaken because you decided not to do it properly.
This seems to be a lesson hard earned by the Russo-Ukraine conflict right now.
The people are actually being desensitized by war and destruction by the day. But the time 武统 is ready to go ahead, I don't think Beijing will have any illusion of a quick and peaceful operation with no resistance and no complications. It is MUCH better to go all out, "kill the chicken with a cow cleaver".
Therefore, I don't really mind the 独轮运/反贼 making the people on two side of the straight hate each other. Once there no longer a need for a pretense of a good-will and smug-face 亲善 good relations. Taiwan will be ripe to be reintegrated by force. Let the world know that it be a Holy War of the Chinese people: for their own dignity and pride. And things will go smoothly.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Exactly, no rush here at all. The vast majority of Taiwanese favor indefinite status quo. We are past the stage where a significant portion of Taiwanese population wants re-unification. Waiting longer will not change any of this. Heck, I wouldn't want to live under the current PRC regime. Remember, Dengxiaoping said they are willing to wait 100 years or longer. China has long history. 50 years is a small blip in China's long history.

The concern isn't that China will want to conduct an unprovoked attack against Taiwan, but rather that political groups on Taiwan and the US try to push the boundary closer and closer to the red line despite repeated PRC warnings, and then of it is crossed, it is up to China whether they want to live up to its red line or not.

Looking at the political and media attitudes in the US, as well as US government actions to Taiwan (both material and rhetoric), it should be a matter of some concern and urgency.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
I just listened through latest Shilao podcast. I must say they really tore into Russia's performance so far. I don't quite understand why people are still defending them. First they discussed in detail just the awful planning that has gone on so far. But more importantly, they discussed the naiveness in Russia's approach so far. Basically, they said that Russia is trying to do this while not looking like the bad guy by trying to minimize their own casualty, Ukrainian army casualty and Ukrainian civilian casualty. All that has done is maximize their own casualty and caused Ukrainian civilians to suffer longer. Now, I happen to disagree with the way they are framing it. It is quite clear the implication of their language in there. If PLA does decide to attack, it will not have illusion that it will be welcomed in there or be given a pass for gently attacking Taiwan. It will have to assume that all Taiwanese aircraft, armored vehicles and troops have to be destroyed to win the war. And if Taiwanese troop is hiding amongst civilians in buildings, they will not hesitate to launch missiles against that building. They can use guided missiles to reduce damage and civilian casualty, but they have to be prepared mentally that some civilians might die in those scenarios. Such is unavoidable.

Pla people consider that Ukraine should have been an easy war to win. Taiwan would be a far harder operation.

From a personal point of view, I really love the Taiwan society and hope we never get to a point where pla invades Taiwan. And I personally dread the idea that we might see civilian being caught in crossfire getting killed. That's the part that really struck me. War is brutal.

That may be too dogmatic, given the changing landscape of capabilities. Manned fixed wing assets are even more finite and the overall SEAD/DEAD strike package that relies on them could be more expensive and higher risk than using drone swarms and CMs. Point being: the 'golden ratio' would depend on the path you choose to take, and that path needs to depend on the relative capabilities and resources etc.
It really isn't. If you look at what they've deployed on these Taiwan incursions, it's mostly a mix of J-16s, H-6Ks and Y-8/9s. It should be pretty obvious what Y-8/9s are there for. J-10C deployments have happened too, but not as frequent. I'd expect quite a few J-10C brigades to be part of any initial A2A operations. But in terms of EW, ground attack and bombardment, the initial wave of attackers have to be J-16s and H-6Ks. How do you expect to completely knock out air bases with just cruise/ballistic missiles? Dropping massive amount of bombs and munitions is the only way you can complete knock out these places. It's unfathomable why Russia hasn't done the same. How can LACMs fired from hundreds of missiles away deliver as much damage as 250 to 500 kg guided bombs dropped from sky?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top