Ladakh Flash Point

twineedle said:

Lol so many people here are seriously confused. I have already showed images of permanent infrastructure built in the galwan valley and on the mouth(THe PLA claim lines include the mouth btw) such as bridges, culverts, permanent camps, roads and even tracks going up the heights. That show India has a permanent presence in the Galwan Valley and Mouth. And if China doesn't claim up to the SHoyk, why did it object to Indian ridges and camps in the area? China's own embassy's statment destroys the narrative of Chinese posteres claiming a victory

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It clearly says "Galwan estuary. Yet India still ahs permanent camps and infrastructure in the vallwy and estuary. China failed to force Indians out of the valley with its pp14 mobilization, and had to retreat from pp14 itself. And patrolling is a tactical op- tactics is simply a way to acheive a goal. Along the LAC, India and CHina patrol in order to control areas where it is not feasible to occupy. THe same people who do not know the difference between tactics and strategy are screaming about a Chinese victory lol. Because India MIGHT have patrolled up to finger 8 a couple times a decadem, that means India controlled up to Finger 8? Whereaas China had been regularly patroling and building infrastructure since 2000, yet finger 4-8 has always been a de-fact part of India lol. WHatever it takes to cope with China's retreat I guess.

As for Gogra and Hot springs, China failed to cross the lac, let alone reach its 1959 claim line. Nobody has even posted any evidence suggesting that, becasue there is none.

The facts are, China decided to expand its claim lines in Galwan, Gogra and other sectors, and sobjected to Indian camps, patrols, and infrastructure in those areas. TO enforce those claims, PLA mobilized very close or slightly across the lac, forcing India to to a mirror deployment. The result?

China failed to reach its claims in any of those sectors.
India has camps in infrastructure in areas China claims, whereas China had to dismantle all of its camps and infrastructure in Pangong Tso.
DSDBO is secured
Even if India lost som patrolling access, China lost even more. For India, denial of Chinese patrols and uildup has always been more important that conducting patrols itself.
So as a result, China gained nothing. The fact that some memers here have to twist intentionally disambiguous Government statements and post a select few anti-modi anlalysts shows that. But keep screaming Chinese victory to help you cope.

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lgnxz said:

Ah I see, so NOW after you're getting cornered you start to do a complete 180 huh. You no longer agree with that retired general that you brought up here earlier? How convenient

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twineedle said:

Interesting to see how the narrative here has gone from "we captured Indian territory and secured our 1959 claim line" to "buffer zones benefit China, China never cared about those territories anyway," to "India failed to cross the lac, China doesn't care about its claim line anymore.."

The funniest thing I have heard though, is "China still controls all those territories, even though Indiia is occupying, patrolling and building infrastructure on them. Guess people here can believe in whatever makes them think China won. The reality, of course, is much different.

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twineedle said:

Now that their arguements have been debunked, some members here are trying to use an intentioanlly disambiguous statement by VK SIngh to justify China's retreat. VK SIngh did not specify where, it could have been anywhere along the lac, likely in areas wehre india has the advantage like Sikkim and parts of arunachal. The fact that China had so much infrastructure between fingers 4 and 8 shows China effectively controlled that region since 1962. That is why whenever indian soldiers went near finger 4, that triggered clashes like the videos from 2017 and 2019.

Now almost all the infrastructure china built is gone, and they can no longer patrol up to China's claim line and are forced to respect India's claim line of finger 8. Yes a big Chinese victory lol.

BTW I am glad we can clarify that the galwan estuary is the mouth, meaning that according to the embassy statement, CHina's new claim includes the entire valley. Unfortunately, china failed to reach its claim line and had to withdraw from pp14.

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twineedle said:

You are not making any sense. The Galwan mouth is where the galwan meets the shyok. Between that, I have already shown images of Indian permanent camps and infrastructure in the valley. So no, China did not acheive its objectives there

And by your logic, india vacated f4-f5. China vacated f4-f8 and agreed not to patrol beyond finger 3. Yes, big win for China by retreating from its own claimed territory.

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twineedle said:

Interesting to see how the narrative here has gone from "we captured Indian territory and secured our 1959 claim line" to "buffer zones benefit China, China never cared about those territories anyway," to "India failed to cross the lac, China doesn't care about its claim line anymore.."

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twineedle said:

The funniest thing I have heard though, is "China still controls all those territories, even though Indiia is occupying, patrolling and building infrastructure on them.

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twineedle said:

Guess people here can believe in whatever makes them think China won. The reality, of course, is much different.

Click to expand...

twineedle said:

Interesting to see how the narrative here has gone from "we captured Indian territory and secured our 1959 claim line" to "buffer zones benefit China, China never cared about those territories anyway," to "India failed to cross the lac, China doesn't care about its claim line anymore.."

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lgnxz said:

1959 line has never been brought up by China. I'll start counting how many times you bring this up in the future, so please just stop repeating the same lie before you finally get a warning, yeah?

Buffer zone does benefit China, you just shamelessly do a complete 180 to your own argument once you can't logically explain why india is more benefited from this deal, despite losing control of a defacto uncontested area (f3 to f4) while all China lost is merely only its new infrastructures in the contested area, anything older can be kept. You brought the quote of the general in the context of discussing about the fingers area, at least admit that you're being a hypocrite and trying to change course, rather than making up excuses about how it's not in ladakh and rather in different area, ffs.

And finally, when did China ever control let alone claim its LAC all the way into the end of the river lmao. You're so desperate, even go as far as relinquishing your own uncontested territory to become a contested one. The protest with regards to the india's rapid deployment into that area is totally different when you crossed the LAC, which is pp14. Find me a single map that puts the LAC line in the galwan mouth, you can't.

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twineedle said:

you are forgetting that China did sometimes patrol into the finger 2-3 area. now it no longer can. China's sirjap post is east of finger 8, so by your logic, China lost the area between sirjap and finger 8. And India never had any bases or infrastructure between 3-4, it onl y set up a temporary camp as a mirror deployment near finger 4 when China occupied it. Now that China withdrew, no reason to stay there.

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