Ladakh Flash Point

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ougoah

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This stuff was proven true...

"The Prime Minister, who initially said nobody had entered Indian territory and no post was occupied by anybody, has avoided speaking on the subject despite ceaseless attacks by the Opposition leader. "

How can Modi be trusted after lying so blatantly and offensively. Anyway Modi's doing CCP's work here I suppose so all's good?
 

ougoah

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I wonder why Modi also hasn't been able to muster up a statement about the cyberwarfare attack on India. The saner minds in India have connected the attack with China serving yet another demonstration of superiority over India. As a reminder to play by China's rules and the recent agreement. Because Modi is starting to get some heat from oppositions and intelligent Indians. He's probably thinking of playing some moves that China wants to stifle. That cyber attack was probably a warning to not do anything drastic and regrettable.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
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Lies some politicians are telling are already being destroyed by actual veterans

Bikram Singh, the formal COAS who served under a Congress PM, has also debunked RG lies

And even though China doesn't allow anyone to speak against the government narrative, that hasn't stopped Chinese people from wondering whether China actually won when in reality, they retreated over 60 km and dismantled everything they built last year

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ougoah

Brigadier
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Lies some politicians are telling are already being destroyed by actual veterans

Bikram Singh, the formal COAS who served under a Congress PM, has also debunked RG lies

And even though China doesn't allow anyone to speak against the government narrative, that hasn't stopped Chinese people from wondering whether China actually won when in reality, they retreated over 60 km and dismantled everything they built last year

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Wow this is an insightful look into headless chicken routine. But it is still a good clip if one can decipher clearly all that's being said. It seems to me (and I may not have heard all parts clearly because headless chicken routine), that the Congress rep Aadil is actually questioning the whole narrative given by Modi's side is he not? He is actually the one accusing BJP of lying. Build ups are too loosely defined here... in fact it is not defined. Empty statements like Depsang build up never happened. Okay well when? Which side? What constitutes build up and where exactly would it be considered build up?

Build ups in Depsang never existed... umm okay.

Each side (in India) is calling the other a liar that's the only established thing.

Bikram Singh (RP Singh) hasn't said a thing here about Rahul Gandhi's claims. At least not in English. The rest is shouting nonsense.

Do you have a script in writing where RP Singh denies officially that Rahul Gandhi is wrong? And exactly which claims from Rahul are wrong?
 

ougoah

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Has Modi officially made statements on the wide cyber attacks and show of capability from China?

Opposition is picking that up as China showing India it's capable of winning in every sphere of warfare the Indians are conscious of and the ones they are not. Why was it done? Probably to make Modi more aware of the leash he's got around his neck. Under such circumstances and knowing full well that India is home to the greatest net of international fake news and BJP has nationalist internet trolls - IT Cell, does it not make sense that Modi can only lie about things and let his agents participate in building the web of lies?

Sure we know there is disengagement on Pangong where buffer is created out of disputed. VK Singh himself admits that Indian troops violated and intruded past LAC (however they define and at worst for India it is F4) more than 5 times as often as PLA. China offered to settle with basically a line down the middle - depending on relations and status, but generally offered to settle between F4 and F8 is satisfactory. So why is there drama about other parts? Pangong side should be calm now. Give yourself a win if you feel like it there lol. But Depsang seems to be a sore point for anti-Modi people.
 

ougoah

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This doesn't say anything. He doesn't deny RG's claims about Depsang and he doesn't even mention that India "won" anything or anything more than the usual political party lines he's supposed to be saying. A lot of empty verbiage from a guy who is expected to do this. I'm looking for BJP official denial on RG's claims about Depsang. Just trying to work out whether PLA truly is or isn't occupying parts of Indian claims in and around Depsang like some Indian figures (respectable and/or high profile ones) are claiming.

I personally don't know about this because China has not issued any statements and seems to be suggesting that there is no issue whatsoever on Depsang side. As for Pangong, I think we've discussed that enough.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
Has Modi officially made statements on the wide cyber attacks and show of capability from China?

Opposition is picking that up as China showing India it's capable of winning in every sphere of warfare the Indians are conscious of and the ones they are not. Why was it done? Probably to make Modi more aware of the leash he's got around his neck. Under such circumstances and knowing full well that India is home to the greatest net of international fake news and BJP has nationalist internet trolls - IT Cell, does it not make sense that Modi can only lie about things and let his agents participate in building the web of lies?

Sure we know there is disengagement on Pangong where buffer is created out of disputed. VK Singh himself admits that Indian troops violated and intruded past LAC (however they define and at worst for India it is F4) more than 5 times as often as PLA. China offered to settle with basically a line down the middle - depending on relations and status, but generally offered to settle between F4 and F8 is satisfactory. So why is there drama about other parts? Pangong side should be calm now. Give yourself a win if you feel like it there lol. But Depsang seems to be a sore point for anti-Modi people.
The anti modi people have been pretty sore since they got demolished last year. Nobody cares what they say. Modi has better things to do to respond to them. China has had a post on the Y junction since around 2000, which lies on the Chinese side of the de facto lac, even if India claims further. And you yourself posted that India Today(which is actually a pretty good source btw) that shows most of the new posts China built(the buildup) is over a dozen km from the lac. But South Depsang is similar to pangong in that both sides claim beyond the current lac. China claims about 18 km past the y junction, India claims about 20. Both sides block each other from reaching claim lines.
 

twineedle

Junior Member
Registered Member
This doesn't say anything. He doesn't deny RG's claims about Depsang and he doesn't even mention that India "won" anything or anything more than the usual political party lines he's supposed to be saying. A lot of empty verbiage from a guy who is expected to do this. I'm looking for BJP official denial on RG's claims about Depsang. Just trying to work out whether PLA truly is or isn't occupying parts of Indian claims in and around Depsang like some Indian figures (respectable and/or high profile ones) are claiming.

I personally don't know about this because China has not issued any statements and seems to be suggesting that there is no issue whatsoever on Depsang side. As for Pangong, I think we've discussed that enough

China has been occupying Indian claims there for decades. Like I said India claims beyond the LAC there similarly to how it claims up to finger 8. China also claims nearly 20 km beyond the y junction. So if China is occupying Indian claims, India is also occupying Chinese claims.

however, relating to the current lac shown on google maps(basically the status quo since 1962, China has not violated that even though it claims beyond it. The satellite images you posted earlier confirm that.

That is the best way I can explain it.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
China has been occupying Indian claims there for decades. Like I said India claims beyond the LAC there similarly to how it claims up to finger 8. China also claims nearly 20 km beyond the y junction. So if China is occupying Indian claims, India is also occupying Chinese claims.

however, relating to the current lac shown on google maps(basically the status quo since 1962, China has not violated that even though it claims beyond it. The satellite images you posted earlier confirm that.

That is the best way I can explain it.

Okay and keeping on the topic of Depsang, why is it that if the status apparently hasn't changed for decades and China is sitting on Indian claims as India sits on China's, why is this such a hot topic with much attention from Indian higher ups?

Who is actually telling the truth? No one here owns their own satellite live feed to get real time updates so let's throw out satellite footage "proof" for the sake of understanding the situation here. Satellite photos don't show movement and what's not there at a certain time in the past does not mean that much on the ground. So why is it that some Indian political and military (retired) figures claim that China is taking parts of India's Depsang claims?

If nothings changed for decades why did Indian MoD claim there are "problems" with Depsang, Hot springs, gogra? Yes those problems may simply be build up and artillery positions behind claims but that could be as undesirable as occupation especially if the other side has stopped build up and moved troops and artillery far behind. I think this isn't something that can be proven here especially if India's own gov and opposition cannot or will not prove their claims either. So if they with the truth and resources won't and can't prove, then we have no chance of doing that until the BJP officially issue statements.

All I know is that the Indian opposition HAS officially issued statements claiming that China is taking some undisclosed amount (they claim wild varying km^2 lost) of India's claims and presumably India is doing that too since China's claim also stretch beyond LAC in Depsang, I think to DBO road?

Could India's BJP refusal to provide the promised updates on Depsang be related to ongoing talks? We know talks have still taken place presumably about disengagement in Depsang. Could the recent Chinese cyber attack on Indian power networks be a demonstration from China to gain bargaining power and position like they did with Pangong when China's PLA occupied almost the totality of the dispute? This seems to be China's MO, gain bargaining power and position through show of force or capability (non lethal as much as possible and relatively indestructive but effective).
 
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