Ladakh Flash Point

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longmarch

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How do we know that the Chinese suffered any dead though? So far accounts only talk about several wounded (note the SCMP article) ... but none dead. I would be surprised if any Chinese soldiers actually died in this confrontation.
See my other post about Hu Xinjin's latest weibo. He is just one step short of saying the fatality number.
 

Figaro

Senior Member
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See my other post about Hu Xinjin's latest weibo. He is just one step short of saying the fatality number.
How do we know he has the exact casualty figures though? I find it very hard to believe China would not release the casaulty figures if one of their soldiers actually did die ... hiding something like this would he pointless and would serve the Indian purpose.
 

Protosaber

Just Hatched
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All the Indian number came from the attached Pic. Know no shame.
 

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SPOOPYSKELETON

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The official casualty number from PLA is the least important thing to India. It's like cutting your finger off to show someone that you are serious, yet they don't care. India has a zillion ways to spin PLA's number, why is that important?

The thinking of helping Modi save face and deescalate is very piece meal fashion and does harm to the long term stability of the border. China should think in broader, longer term, not just how to get out of the current crisis.

The idea of help Modi de-escalate is dangerous. It underestimate India society's ability to form public opinion based on the interest THEY see. It underestimates India military's appetite to take casualties. A few dozen casualties, a private humiliation, means nothing to them. Last year they had fighter jets shot down, pilot captured, helicopter crashed, but nothing changed. Why this time is any different?

On the contrary, China's goodwill can only been seen as a sign of weakness,i.e. China is eager to deescalate. If I'm Modi, I would draw the conclusion that China is afraid of economic backlash.

And that might not be too far from the truth either, that Chinese leadership is afraid of economic backlash. Otherwise, why not disclose the casualty number which every normal country in the world would do, which means nothing to India!

Knowing the thinking of your opponent is really important. If you have been dealing with someone and things don't work, change it instead of keep repeating the same failed approach again and again.

Damn straight, it's time for regime change in India. MODI should be removed by patriotic Hindus who do not want this Western bootlicker to pick fights he cannot win.

LIBERATE NEW DEHLI! LIBERATE KASHMIR!
 

Maxef208

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You don't seem to realize that India presents zero threat to China. India vs China is as much of a mismatch as Iraq vs US in the first Gulf War.

So whatever China is doing to keep this disparity of power is in fact wildly successful.
Even if India can't actually beat China, it can be a nuisance and distract China from focusing entirely on the SCS issue and Taiwan that will only get hotter. China will also have responsibilities to defend the BRI in it's territory. Trying to get China to fight both a island hopping war and a mountain war. This seems to be the goal. In an ideal world India and China would realize they are getting played by outside powers and stop this bs since both will only damage each other. I think a former Indian PM and UN official recognized this and have been trying to calm the war mongers down. I can't remember their names right now.

That's the point. It's hopeless endeavor to please India. Why not just ignore India's domestic politics and do what normal country would do, at least give your war dead some proper recognition.

To change their behavior you have to humiliate them publicly, otherwise what do they lose. They are not the ones who go to frontline and die. The fact that China doesn't want to escalate means China is afraid of something, and India knows it. India knows China wants to focus on the east and is taking full advantage of it. To stop the nonsense China has to show that it's serious and China is willing to escalate. Withholding casualty number is way off the point.
But that's kinda the point, they don't feel humiliated no matter what, they just channel their anger elsewhere. You're right, they won't be on the frontline cuz they are almost always actual cowards, but they will be the ones egging their politicians to send people to the frontlines to die for their ego and they won't feel bad about it, cuz "good cause". China already showed a willingness to escalate deploying the PLA airborne nearby and armored vehicles. Does China need to artillery barrage the LAC out of existence for shock and awe?

Right now afaik, India has lost 40 soldiers that didn't need to die, and is de-escalating and ceded 60km of land, to anyone in the world that would look like a loss. How do you think Indian hyper nationalists took it?

Also if China is really trying to hide deaths, the dead will still likely be honored in private ceremonies.
 

Figaro

Senior Member
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Even if India can't actually beat China, it can be a nuisance and distract China from focusing entirely on the SCS issue and Taiwan that will only get hotter. China will also have responsibilities to defend the BRI in it's territory. Trying to get China to fight both a island hopping war and a mountain war. This seems to be the goal. In an ideal world India and China would realize they are getting played by outside powers and stop this bs since both will only damage each other. I think a former Indian PM and UN official recognized this and have been trying to calm the war mongers down. I can't remember their names right now.


But that's kinda the point, they don't feel humiliated no matter what, they just channel their anger elsewhere. You're right, they won't be on the frontline cuz they are almost always actual cowards, but they will be the ones egging their politicians to send people to the frontlines to die for their ego and they won't feel bad about it, cuz "good cause". China already showed a willingness to escalate deploying the PLA airborne nearby and armored vehicles. Does China need to artillery barrage the LAC out of existence for shock and awe?

Right now afaik, India has lost 40 soldiers that didn't need to die, and is de-escalating and ceded 60km of land, to anyone in the world that would look like a loss. How do you think Indian hyper nationalists took it?

Also if China is really trying to hide deaths, the dead will still likely be honored in private ceremonies.
If Chinese troops actually died and the Chinese government did not acknowledge the deaths, even if there are private ceremonies I doubt the outcome would be good for the Chinese government. This would only serve to make the Chinese government look very bad and non-transparent ... it would be much better to state the deaths immediately after the conflict than to do this should this be the case.
 

Maxef208

New Member
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If Chinese troops actually died and the Chinese government did not acknowledge the deaths, even if there are private ceremonies I doubt the outcome would be good for the Chinese government. This would only serve to make the Chinese government look very bad and non-transparent ... it would be much better to state the deaths immediately after the conflict than to do this should this be the case.
I don't disagree, not to mention it will give an actual reference point, rather than everybody making up imagined numbers. I'm just saying IF they want to hide it, that's what they would do. If they do hide 1 and it gets found out, then speculation becomes exaggeration. That said if China really didn't lose anyone, people are going to seriously want footage of how this fight went down. Maybe it will support the idea that many of the Indian dead died from the environment rather than the soldiers, supporting those stories of Indian soldiers running away from "death squads".
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Problem is, this doesn't look professional. You can easily sleep on top of your gun with the safety off to prevent someone from trying to snatch your rifle. Alternatively, you can lock your rifle between your legs and pass it to your arms if someone tries to pull it.

Soldiers have to sleep too! They aren’t robots.

In basic training (weekend warrior edition), we had limited sleep during field training exercise.

How did the junior NCO’s shame you for falling asleep when you weren’t supposed to? Stealing your rifle of course! So what’s the solution (other than staying awake)? Usually some kind of creative sling wrapping.

No one is going to sleep with one in the chamber! I highly doubt those rifles are loaded. Mag might be in just to keep dirt out.
 
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