Ladakh Flash Point

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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
EblisTx said:
From what I read, they were ambushed during the negotiation with the Indians. I am wondering how could PLA tolerate such a despicable movement. They should pay the price!!
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They did pay the price. The Indians had their commander and lieutenant both killed and possibly more seniors killed amongst the 20+ they admitted to.

They had over 40 Jawans captured with lower ranks returned the following days and senior ranked held up to a week.

Not even considering the 20+ killed (according to China, from injuries and exposure rather than the PLA's hand), that is the price they paid.

But it really must be said here that they were only defending what India considers their territory. Unfortunately the PLA had to respond with such a firm move back in Feb-May due to unprecedented levels of Indian intrusions into what both dispute. This isn't too different from the Chinese perspective who view the situation as defending their land from increased Indian patrols and illegitimate claims. The development was simply different and escalated differently with what seems to be China sort of determining where it goes with minimally effective Indian means of challenging as evidenced from Feb to now. I mean if during this whole year, the Indians managed to get the PLA out of finger 4 camps by force and capture from finger 4 to 8 and associated claims north of the lake, then yeah the Indians were able to reverse PLA's moves but they had a few tries and the only result was needless loss of life without strategic wins.

Basically a watered down summary is the following.

2019-Feb 2020: Increased Indian intrusions from Galwan up to finger 8 at Pangong.

Feb 2020: PLA was ordered to respond in one swoop to capture up to finger 4 and associated Chinese claim points to push out the Indians and establish at least a temporary control of all Chinese claims in response to India's slow but confident ingress into disputed parts.

Feb 2020 onwards: IA ordered to respond to PLA aggression and we have the clashes in May (original reports of confrontations everywhere including one where a large group of Indians were "subdued" and tied up with that photo) however there were plenty of confrontation events and points at which these happened. Also culminated in June fights under the lead of Babu. Following this, India continued to challenge PLA's move with ingress into China proper - Reqin, back in October to capture something to negotiate with. Promptly removed and the IA settled to within throwing distance of PLA's positions from Galwan to Black Top and Helmet top, removing PLA's range advantages if any. This prevents PLA from moving further as well, not that they did.

Now: Both sides agree to creating buffer in the dispute with neither side ingressing and building, patrolling etc. Done, PLA moves back and India also gets that win but India's original confident intrusions and increased patrols are also no longer conducted which satisfies China's wishes as well. Leaving this stretch to continue as a dispute... boring but admittedly sensible even for China.
 
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davidau

Senior Member
Registered Member
supersnoop said:
Missing translation?
Pardon my rusty "Français", doing this for practice

The arrival of the bodies of the 4 Chinese soliders at Lhasa(?) airport. Killed "the old fashioned way" (metal rods, ?, slingshot) in a confrontation with the Indian army June 2020 in Galwan Valley
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What has got to do with this website..."China's transport, tanker &"
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
longmarch said:
Hiding casualty number is self-imposed humiliation, nothing else. You think superpower 2020 appreciate that? They would never acknowledge this number. And for every military who has sense of honour, what PLA did was laughing stock.
This would give superpower 2020 better incentive to come back later, because the opponent has a weirdly weak mindset.
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No this is quite wrong and inaccurate.

US never immediately release any damage even when light losses were suffered in Syria or Iraq as Iranian missiles rained on them. Even no loss of life was only reported days later. Russians never reported on the mercenary losses or any in Ukraine either and if they do, it is well after the event. This is standard practice for all nations and have been for a long time. Indians themselves didn't admit to losses until days/weeks later and even then it was 4 then 5 then 10 then 20 then 20+ then back to 20.

China is reporting on this and releasing the less disturbing visual content (disturbing for Indians) only AFTER the disengagement agreements. Same with their losses, released right AFTER disengagement not during. It's hard to say during confrontations how the situation may evolve. This is actually the appropriate and sensible way. If they released the IA being tied up and the dead IA also those clash points with all those soldiers before winter (old photos) the Jai Hind crowd would have pushed Modi into unresistricted war. Something China doesn't want either since it would really have very little if anything to gain even it is won the conventional confrontation. India winning however would mean great losses of Chinese territory.
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
longmarch said:
肉食者鄙，it was far from ideal and I'm entitled to criticize.
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Then I am entitled to criticize you. With no knowledge of the events behind the scenes, no qualifications to judge, you presume to make choices better than the most efficient and effective government in the world. How pompous and ignorant. You may have your opinion but it is but fan art compared to China's official and professional projects. Your ideas are far less ideal and your view of ideal is irrelevant but you bark on not knowing it.

Criticize the CCP and be buried in criticism from its supporters.
solarz said:
He's not Chinese.
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How do you know that, or are you just guessing? Because if I've been talking to a person who uses Chinese chengyu with a screen name of Longmarch and he's NOT Chinese, I'm getting trolled big time...
 
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EblisTx

Junior Member
ougoah said:
They did pay the price. The Indians had their commander and lieutenant both killed and possibly more seniors killed amongst the 20+ they admitted to.

They had over 40 Jawans captured with lower ranks returned the following days and senior ranked held up to a week.

Not even considering the 20+ killed (according to China, from injuries and exposure rather than the PLA's hand), that is the price they paid.

But it really must be said here that they were only defending what India considers their territory. Unfortunately the PLA had to respond with such a firm move back in Feb-May due to unprecedented levels of Indian intrusions into what both dispute. This isn't too different from the Chinese perspective who view the situation as defending their land from increased Indian patrols and illegitimate claims. The development was simply different and escalated differently with what seems to be China sort of determining where it goes with minimally effective Indian means of challenging as evidenced from Feb to now. I mean if during this whole year, the Indians managed to get the PLA out of finger 4 camps by force and capture from finger 4 to 8 and associated claims north of the lake, then yeah the Indians were able to reverse PLA's moves but they had a few tries and the only result was needless loss of life without strategic wins.

Basically a watered down summary is the following.

2019-Feb 2020: Increased Indian intrusions from Galwan up to finger 8 at Pangong.

Feb 2020: PLA was ordered to respond in one swoop to capture up to finger 4 and associated Chinese claim points to push out the Indians and establish at least a temporary control of all Chinese claims in response to India's slow but confident ingress into disputed parts.

Feb 2020 onwards: IA ordered to respond to PLA aggression and we have the clashes in May (original reports of confrontations everywhere including one where a large group of Indians were "subdued" and tied up with that photo) however there were plenty of confrontation events and points at which these happened. Also culminated in June fights under the lead of Babu. Following this, India continued to challenge PLA's move with ingress into China proper - Reqin, back in October to capture something to negotiate with. Promptly removed and the IA settled to within throwing distance of PLA's positions from Galwan to Black Top and Helmet top, removing PLA's range advantages if any. This prevents PLA from moving further as well, not that they did.

Now: Both sides agree to creating buffer in the dispute with neither side ingressing and building, patrolling etc. Done, PLA moves back and India also gets that win but India's original confident intrusions and increased patrols are also no longer conducted which satisfies China's wishes as well. Leaving this stretch to continue as a dispute... boring but admittedly sensible even for China.
Click to expand...
The Chinese only recognized the death of 3 Indians. It was the terrible logistics on the Indian side who killed the rest. I would not consider it as a price paid. Not to mention the premium to be for being the aggressor in the first place as well as playing dirty.
 
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longmarch

Junior Member
Registered Member
ougoah said:
No this is quite wrong and inaccurate.

US never immediately release any damage even when light losses were suffered in Syria or Iraq as Iranian missiles rained on them. Even no loss of life was only reported days later. Russians never reported on the mercenary losses or any in Ukraine either and if they do, it is well after the event. This is standard practice for all nations and have been for a long time. Indians themselves didn't admit to losses until days/weeks later and even then it was 4 then 5 then 10 then 20 then 20+ then back to 20.

China is reporting on this and releasing the less disturbing visual content (disturbing for Indians) only AFTER the disengagement agreements. Same with their losses, released right AFTER disengagement not during. It's hard to say during confrontations how the situation may evolve. This is actually the appropriate and sensible way. If they released the IA being tied up and the dead IA also those clash points with all those soldiers before winter (old photos) the Jai Hind crowd would have pushed Modi into unresistricted war. Something China doesn't want either since it would really have very little if anything to gain even it is won the conventional confrontation. India winning however would mean great losses of Chinese territory.
Click to expand...
Disengagement is only for Pangong Tso, the number is for Galwan. You can always come up with a theory, but this one doesn't make sense.
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
LOL at Twinneedle BJP IT Cell narrative.

Because India moved in to dispute and patrolled right up to finger 8 and well beyond pp13/14, and then got promptly pushed back with PLA firmly settling in for a year, you want to move the goalposts and claim India never did such things?? Have some self respect and shame.

BTW posting current interviews with Indian narrative handlers does NOT prove India wasn't patrolling past finger 4 building up to the confrontation. The facts remain that India claims up to finger 8 and past PP13 and PP14 and in fact did build infrastructure and camps WITHIN Chinese claims (which India claims as well) and patrolled right up to the edge of those Indian claims before early 2020. These are facts proven with evidence even in this thread.

It's so annoying dealing with you snakes. Shifting the facts and even your own lies and narratives. Indian claims of what they did and did not do are no more inherently factual than Chinese ones. The difference is the Chinese ones are at least completely constant albeit they release info well after the events and timed to be the least disruptive. Notice how they only released some footage of clashes from before winter and during winter now after the escalation and reported on the actual PLA deaths after disengagement?

Recall also how Chinese leaks DID mention PLA losing 1 communication officer after being brutally assaulted by IA and 2 men who succumbed to injuries weeks after the June fight? Remember how they admitted unofficially to the two men lost to injuries in hospital while being treated but succumbed? There you go, PLA hinted at 3 deaths and seems like there were another 1 or 2 not that they need to provide the world with the actual numbers immediately which is common practice everywhere if you notice.

India themselves wouldn't admit to real IA losses, capping reports to 20+ or "at least 20 IA dead" and then scaling that back to just 20. Snakes. If you want to immediately release actual numbers, stick to reporting your own and report the real number like PLA eventually did. Don't play on the propaganda narrative and emotions of your own people. The real IA losses was probably well into the 40s like PLA hinted at months and months ago. The Chinese side just don't play with reporting on enemy losses and shift them as they please.
 
O

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Also those satellite footage come with absolutely zero dates and indications and the ones that do are often doctored again as proven before.

Indians can you please have some dignity and shame. Stop photoshopping and stop making claims. It's actually embarrassing to all the sane and reasoned people around. Look at how you lied about the mass graves which were there since the 1960s. Look how you lied about the Su-35 that was never shot down or lost with Taiwan officially condemning India fake news brigade. Remember the list of PLA soldier killed who were just a wiki list of PLA generals from the 1940s to 60s? Or the photoshopped dates on satellite images? Or the satellite images taken out of context?

How about the Indians who originally claimed back in May to October about PLA moving back (presumably due to IA super soldiers) and only to be embarrassed with real satellite footage showing PLA not only at finger 4 but engraving the word China into the ground for those satellites to see?

How many times have Indians lied? We've actually lost count. How many times has China been proven to have lied? Z.E.R.O.

So now why should we trust your new goalposts of Indian having never been patrolling up to India's claims? They have. It's widely reported and prior to 2020 it was also reported by your own media as a source of ego boost as if to say the Indians are tough on their own claims and do right to them by patrolling up to the edge of India's claims.

Why should we trust some damage control India authority handlers who are there to say Indians never camped within the dispute and build infrastructure leading to them. These have happened and reported by Indian media from 2013 to 2020 as a source of pride to say that India is matching Chinese infrastructure building.

Why reverse on all that chest thumping false bravado now that India's infra building is stopped and IA cannot step inside the dispute much less walk up to the edge of those claims?

You lot are truly, evidently, not only incompetent shameless liars but also pathetic worms of the lowest order to go this low and try shift the goalposts. Whatever though, it's not like the Jai Hind crowd can do much more than participate in violent misogyny, racism, and streetshitting. Knock yourselves out like your soldiers did.
 
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