Some details of the conflict are posted here for comments
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Ladakh Flash Point
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When Indian Air Force fighters were shot down by PAF in Feb 2019,India went into denial and after WC Abhinandan was paraded by Pakistan,they accepted it,later India paddled a fake news about shooting a PAF F 16,same is happening against China.Indian media is building a fake picture of bravado of Chinese casualties,its a drama only meant for domestic consumption
When Indian Air Force fighters were shot down by PAF in Feb 2019,India went into denial and after WC Abhinandan was paraded by Pakistan,they accepted it,later India paddled a fake news about shooting a PAF F 16,same is happening against China.Indian media is building a fake picture of bravado of Chinese casualties,its a drama only meant for domestic consumption
Any comments on Modi's six points,his body language was pathetic
At least that's what U.S. News claims. As far as I can see, they didn't provide any link to the said assessment or the name of the so-called senior officer. For all we know, they might be pulling a Minnie Chan routine on us.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
Awww, that's cute, you're presuming a reason because you don't want to believe the given reason LOL.
Over 40 returned POWs... That's more humiliating than 40 dead. That the PLA quickly released them without fanfare likely shows how satisfied they were with the outcome. If China needed more Indian casualties to not only "avoid whipping up anger amongst Chinese nationalists" but give them something to brag about, it could execute the 40 and say they died in combat or at least hold them for some embarrassing interviews and slowly negotiate their return. If you witnessed 35-43 of your brethren killed in combat moments ago, would you so easily return 40 of theirs? I don't know about you but if I just saw a group of people kill 30+ Chinese soldiers and they were now captured at my mercy, there wouldn't be anything left to return. I know it's not your strong suit but try to think and analyze.
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My late uncle in law ( a lovely old chap who is much missed) was a long serving NCO in the Hong Kong garrison who ended up being a self defense (ie hand to hand combat) instructor. He was a highly profficient Martial artist and even in his old age, despite being of short stature and low weight, he could easily and painlessly, put down my more boisterous teenage nephews.
The point that lies behind the folksy homily, is one that Mrs S made to me earlier today. She pointed out that in a confrontation zone in which firearms were not permitted, that it would be soldiers with a high degree of hand to hand capability that would be selected to undertake the local garrison and patrol duties.
I think she makes a lot of sense and it certainly explains the apparent outcome.
The point that lies behind the folksy homily, is one that Mrs S made to me earlier today. She pointed out that in a confrontation zone in which firearms were not permitted, that it would be soldiers with a high degree of hand to hand capability that would be selected to undertake the local garrison and patrol duties.
I think she makes a lot of sense and it certainly explains the apparent outcome.
What the hell? This isn't 1940s Europe. The PLA will never resort to such low tactics and didn't even in the 50s.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Excellent report That is basically the root cause of this border incident. India never own their past and come into term with their past aggression That is why the border is festering problem.Seem like the incident was initiated by the Indian army attacking Chinese post and the chinese reply in kind just as PLA wolf post I like this passage
No defeat is easy for the people of a young, proud nation to live with. But coming to terms with 1962 has been especially difficult because its causes have been assiduously hidden from the people by every successive government. They have done this by refusing to release the Indian Army’s own assessment of the causes of its defeat, prepared by two unimpeachable officers of the Indian army, Lieutenant-General T.B. Henderson Brooks and Victoria Cross holder Brigadier Prem Bhagat. This has robbed three generations of Indians of the understanding they needed to come to terms with it. As a result, Indians remain convinced that China was the aggressor; that it claimed 140,000 sq km of Indian territory across the entire length of the Himalayas, and had begun nibbling away at it as far back as in 1954.
In the years that followed, the only person who wrote an authoritative book contesting this was the Australian journalist and India correspondent of the London Times, Neville Maxwell who, as it turned out, was the only journalist given a copy of the Henderson-Brooks-Bhagat report on the promise that he would use its contents but never refer to it.
In his widely read book, , Maxwell squarely accused India of having started the war. Maxwell accused Jawaharlal Nehru of being an “imperialist” who adopted a drawn in Tibet unilaterally by the British and, more questionably, of trying to evict China from any territory it occupied west and south of these borders through the use of “non-violent force”. The Chinese, he claims, were slow to catch on to his designs and continued to believe, until as late as 1961, that he would negotiate the borders in the Himalayas peacefully. They were only shaken out of their stupor by India’s aggressive patrolling and establishment of scores of posts along its definition of the border. From this, Maxwell went on to declare India the aggressor in the 1962 war, and China the victim.
Indian scholars and analysts tried to refute Maxwell’s thesis but, severely handicapped by lack of access to the Henderson-Brooks-Bhagat report and the Chinese foreign office, they were forced to rely upon anecdotal evidence and only managed to dent the edges of his assertions. As a result, Indians have never achieved closure on their humiliating defeat. Instead, as happened to the Germans after their sudden, unexplained, defeat in World War I, the wound has continued to fester. Today, our incomprehension of the past is threatening to poison our future.
Here is another delusion of McMahon line. They keep clinging to the idea that they make agreement with Tibet even though Tibet was never an independent country
Till late 1959, the Indo-Tibetan border had remained a dormant one. The army was not even involved in policing it – the task had been left to the Indo-Tibetan Border Police. But two violent clashes, in August 1959 at Longju on the western edge of NEFA (now Arunachal Pradesh), and in October at Kongka La on the Kashmir-Xinjiang frontier, turned it into a ‘live’ border.
The government’s instruction to the army was “to restrict any further Chinese ingress into Indian territory in Ladakh” and “to establish our rights of possession on our side of the McMahon Line and prevent infiltration”. Both these directives were very far from the Forward Policy that, Maxwell claimed, Nehru had adopted in the early-to-mid 1950s.
Here is the cause of the present incident
The Commanding Officer of 16 Bihar, Colonel Santosh Babu, and his fellow men lost their lives in a medieval-era clash, complete with stones and nail-studded clubs, with Chinese Peoples’ Liberation Army (PLA) at Galwan on Monday evening, but their blood has triggered a turning point in India-China relations.
Despite being outnumbered by PLA troops with reinforcement reserves coming from behind, Col Santosh and his men struck back at the adversary, killing or critically injuring 43-50 PLA troopers. Unlike in the past, the Colonel had confronted his Chinese counterparts and asked them to follow the agreed June 6 disengagement rules.
The aggressive Chinese PLA had left him with no options. The Indian side had pulled back as part of de-escalation but the Chinese PLA was staying put at the stand-off site on Patrolling point 14.
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@siegecrossbow @Deino there is a heavy PLA build up going on in chusul sector for counter attack as they probably are expecting an assault by Indian forces on Galwan , finger area. You should open a separate thread for discussion in my opinion. escalation are guaranteed now. all military leaves have been cancelled and northern and western command have been put on high alert.
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