Ladakh Flash Point

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emblem21

Major
Registered Member
China might be 30 years behind Western forces, but at least it has enough ammunition to last more than two weeks.
I am surprised that anyone would trust news from India given the about of bullshitting that tends to come out of there, not to mention that China has managed to match the US when being under geared in every sense of the word, now at least, they are better equipped and also haven't gone picking fights with everyone while there economy is going into the toilet.... see what I did there, this applies to both US and India....
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
I honestly hate where this is going, it is in neither’s interests to escalate this further, for India, fighting a war where it has a low chance of it coming on top, for China, pushing India further into US’ orbit.

China should remember where the real rival instead escalation over no-mans land.

India has become a core part of US strategic planning and this isn't anything that's suddenly come about in the last few years. Whether the whole of India went in as an equal partner in understanding its position and role isn't clear but it is certainly willing and will be willing to play its part. They have created enough of a backdrop for a war with China or one where they join some alliance against China. The Ladakh incident will either fizzle out or escalate once the US goes to war with China. India has been slowly provoking the Ladakh crisis since 2013 and the US has given us enough hints that the war path is the one they have picked.

Everything is escalating and India is not some neutral party or one that can be convinced to stay out of things. The real rival is creating the backdrop for WW3 and trying to hold together the alliance that will go to war with China. The problem for China is this real rival isn't quite that obvious because it hides behind the considerable size of its favoured henchmen. It's a tautology, India is the USA is the UK is Australia. They are ruled by the same organism.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
I honestly hate where this is going, it is in neither’s interests to escalate this further, for India, fighting a war where it has a low chance of it coming on top, for China, pushing India further into US’ orbit.

China should remember where the real rival instead escalation over no-mans land.

It should also be mentioned that China isn't exactly the one escalating in Ladakh. At least it's one of those "takes two hands to clap" situations. India has been probing for many years and performing its old provocations here. Ask yourself why China would see it fit to cause trouble and bad PR for itself over a valueless no man's land?? India is under instruction or it sees fit to provoke because it either is under instruction or it feels confident in China's inaction due to the calculus that China is not going to invite any more bad PR/ anti-China propaganda. CCP's response to this needs to be understood in the context of the meta-analysis. It evaluates India's motivations and sources of motivations in depth and then chooses to respond in a way that befits the conclusions. Showing resolve in a direct military response has been the result, that should clue us in to what the struggle will become.
 

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
I finally figured out what's actually going on...

I doubt that, but let's see...

Traditional Indian nationalism has a strong aggressive and military basis.

Fail.

Your original 'strategic calculus' was that China hit Ladakh to protect Modi from the coronavirus. And this new 'calculus' is still just as wrong. I could give you a whole lecture on Indian history and the insecure 'basis' of its nationalism, but it will be wasted on you.

What concerns me is the following, and it's the only reason I bothered replying:

...their experience screwing with the Pakistanis in both Kashmir and Bangladesh shows it.

Instead of attempting 'strategic calculus' maybe first learn basic arithmetic. Sum up all the land that Pakistan has captured from India and vice versa. Pakistan has liberated 1/3rd of Kashmir, which India has never been able to recover. The only land India has ever been able to capture aggressively from Pakistan is parts of the Siachin Glacier, and even that operation they screwed up and gained nothing from it.

As for Bangladesh, the math is even simpler, and has nothing to do with India. "West Pakistan" was separated from "East Pakistan" by 1700 kilometres. If "East Pakistan" wanted Independence, nothing would have stopped it, period. Even if India didn't exist, it would've happened. And even in the 1971 war, India won nothing in its Western Sector.
 
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SPOOPYSKELETON

Junior Member
Registered Member
I really don't want to deal with Chinese nationalism either (i.e, China is always right, China does no wrong), etc. The bigger issue for me is the prospect of major losses on the border bringing the entire Indian nationalist symbolic edifice down. That's what I want; i.e, the Indians to go wail to their mothers and face reality.

Did you know that in Buddhism, "Maya" refers to deceit or delusion, but in Hinduism, "Maya" refers to wealth, treasure, or is otherwise associated with Lakshmi, the Hindu goddess of wealth?

The problem with the Indians vs the Chinese is that the Indians have a habit of being crazy; i.e, they'd be willing to pick fights they can't win. The Chinese, on the other hand, favor deterrence and setting up scenarios where they don't have to fight. So you're dealing with the Indians promising to bash their heads into you endlessly, and while not fatal, it can get expensive and annoying.

Balkanization or Regime change in India should be a strategic goal of the Xi administration. Provoking the Indians into an unwinnable battle should be the opening move imo.
 

Ash the rational

New Member
Registered Member
Key factor is that the PLA can't throw the first (major) punch without getting China into a bunch of sanctions. The InA, can potentially throw the first punch, but their political masters and the head honchos know the risk.

For China to actually do what Congress wants (saddle Modi with a war loss), China would need to first, lose all of its territory on the disputed LAC, THEN do a counterpush, because it's much harder to construe as Chinese aggression in that case.

Congress' best scenario, ideally, would be for the PLA to get blamed for starting things, then denounced for continuing things. Even if (and most likely, it's when, not if) they lose, they can blame Modi for everything.

===

TBH, after having dealt with Indian nationalists and the Indian bleating, I am far less tolerant of Modi and willing to take a chance with Congress at this point. The main question is how to bomb India into a new government without getting sanctioned.
adding some few points.
Anyway this is summary of all political parties in India.
1)BJP(present ruling regime)
Nationalist party of India.Doesnt like discenting voices.Create Havoc on weak people.Lack of experience in administration and handling country affairs.More driven by posturing.
Few positive things are like very bold in decisions and removed red tape from many areas of administration.
2)Congress(previous ruling regime)
Underdog.Always kept its policies and strategies away from media and common people.So led to less popularity among masses.Though they had good knowledge in administration of country affairs they were not vocal or assertive.
Dr.Manmohan singh (ex prime minister) very knowledgeable and praiseworthy .
But Major negative point was succesion of power only to family which led to power rest only to few elites.
These two parties have thier plus and minus.

But If you look for party with major plus than it is congress .So I agree with your view to some extent but congress need to transform thier party with new leadership .
 

Chish

Junior Member
Registered Member
I honestly hate where this is going, it is in neither’s interests to escalate this further, for India, fighting a war where it has a low chance of it coming on top, for China, pushing India further into US’ orbit.

China should remember where the real rival instead escalation over no-mans land.
China not pushing India. India & US (Quad) ganging up for mutual strategic advantage.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
Indians were getting to overconfident (see Doklam) and more hubris in Aksai Chin, so they needed to be reminded of the power differential.
 
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