JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 News, Discussion & Media

Re: JF-17: New Pics

Skyhawk 2005, there is a limit to being ridiculous but it seems there is no limit to being stupid in your case.

Who is pshamim? It is very well known in pakistani defence community as well as some of the global defence forums. He is respected for serving in Pakistani Air Force as a pilot and still he is respected for offering his expertise in the defence industry in USA.

You need to fess up and accept professional opinion rather than your own knowledge acquired from reading wikipedia.

As far as asaracen and pshamim being the same person... read my first line in this pragraph. No, they are not the same person nor do they have a desire to use multiple IDs to fancy their own posts. You have come up with that asinine assumption on what basis? It seems, you do that a lot on the forums so you think other people would also have similar Multiple Personality disorders like yourself?

To comfort you even further, we do have a system in place that monitors and checks for multiple IDs.

Instead of running in circles trying to catch your tail, look ahead and see where you are going. Your opinion is okay as long as you respect other members and not come up with stupid and baseless allegations just because they are posting something which you simply cannot. This type of circus will get you banned around here.

*Thread closed so it gives you enough time to absorb this. Will be open in 12-24 hours.

Thanks and Enjoy!

Re: JF-17: New Pics

Just my 2 cents,
skyhawk made is points here, it just does not make sense that PAC get 50% share of the profit from CAC produced/export aircrafts, while PAC does not do anything to that export order even though PAC contribute 50% of that developement cost.
Speaking of Dev cost, way before PAC joint in, the project already existed as Super-7 and China already spent alot of money on it. PAC spend the 50% cost is only the cost of 1998 onward, which it was just a portion of the whole developement cost.
I think PAC's 50% share is just only for Lincense TOT paid in advance, China used that share and his own share to just finish the existing project.
I have not see any official doc about this 50/50 announcement from either sides, and since no one has the exact content of the contract, it is just a speculation for now.
Wait and see what happen.

Regards,

John

Re: JF-17: New Pics

I think it's quite enough for the 50/50 matter, though talking about that would require someone ever seen the content of the contract, else any saying is just speculation. The matter has cause the thread temporary closed, if it closes once again, it might close forever.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

skyhawk2005 said:

hmm..and I am beginning to think that pshamim and you are the same person. Why do I say this? Because you earlier stated pshamin had written many things that prove his insider knowledge. However, doing a search on pshamim's post proved otherwise. All of pshamim's posts were short, and demonstrated no knowledge.

Fess up. You and him are the same, right?

Click to expand...

If you want to know more about Pshamim go to either Pakdef.info or Defence talk.com. Saracen and P are two different persons. Just by searching for his posts here(a total of what 12!) you made you'r kiddish assumption. Learn to recognise a real defence proffessional and insider when you see one. Other wise these guys don't take easily to you'r kind. Get my drift?:nono:

Re: JF-17: New Pics

skyhawk2005 said:

I think we can say the following is true:

Pakistan's 150 JF17 requirement will be produced by CAC and PAC but initially, it will be done by CAC. As PAC gains skills, her contribution will steadily increase up to some high %, maybe 50% or higher.

Click to expand...

No. Both nations invest 50% in every input to the FC-1. If CAC buys a nut for the FC-1 from a shop in Chengdu, half of the bill will be sent to Islamabad.

Net profit of Export JF17s will be shared but this doesn't mean 50/50 share of revenue because it is dependent on the % of work each party contributes.

Click to expand...

And each party contributes 50% in labour also. If a Chinese engineer works for one month and demands x dollars, China will pay half and Pakistan will pay half, from its taxpayer who can be an office worker, bussinessman or accountant who has worked proportionately in Pakistan to get half of the work of radar detection done in Chengdu by that engineer.

It would be grossly unfair if PAC shared 50% of revenue, which was my initial understanding.

Click to expand...

PAC puts 50% so it gets 50% (although only financially and hardly in technology as was indicated by Chinese media reports).

Re: JF-17: New Pics

I agree, It's not as though CAC will pay for materials and manpower and give 50% profit to PAC! The labour and material cost will have to be shared (which is what happens when you have a half share), therefore making it fair. In terms of Pakistan's technical input, who knows. Whether there was or wasn't, at the end of the day it's a learning curve for both China and Pakistan in their own ways and that's priceless.

And Johnwoo, I highly doubt the FC-1/JF-17 project would have been persued if Pakistan hadn't invested.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

Some new pictures of FC-1-04

Re: JF-17: New Pics

Some more pictures Antennas.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

Black jack said:

I agree, It's not as though CAC will pay for materials and manpower and give 50% profit to PAC! The labour and material cost will have to be shared (which is what happens when you have a half share), therefore making it fair. In terms of Pakistan's technical input, who knows. Whether there was or wasn't, at the end of the day it's a learning curve for both China and Pakistan in their own ways and that's priceless.

And Johnwoo, I highly doubt the FC-1/JF-17 project would have been persued if Pakistan hadn't invested.

Click to expand...

yes, it would've been. Look at every recent Chinese project, there is a domestic version and export version. super-7 and f-7mf projects were both internal CAC projects before PAF decided to join in super-7 and make it jf-17. Make no mistake, people in CAC was going to develop one of the two aforementionned projects for export number either way. It helped that they got funding from Pakistan, but they wanted something all along to sell to existing F-7 users (and other users). And it's not priceless learning curve for CAC, it learnt everything it needs from J-10.

As for sharing the cost of production, that's total bs. How the heck can Pakistan get a lowdown on the exact of labour cost and materials cost? CAC will set prices on the components and assembly and such. Other contractors in China will set their prices for the radars, avionics and engines and such. After all that is done, whatever is left over is probably shared. And then, the training and servicing agreement will be agreed with either China or Pakistan. Whoever is in charge of that will get paid for it.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

Does the CFTE(not sure I spelled it right), the only official flight test center in China, ever test JF-17? If not, does this mean the JF-17 will never enter PLAAF? It looks like every indegenious models currently serving in PLAAF has been extensively tested by this institute, and receive design certificate from this institute before enter batch production.