JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 News, Discussion & Media

Re: JF-17: New Pics

MIGleader said:

CAC and PAC will not share the EARNINGs 50/50, but because each contributed equally to the development costs, the profits go 50/50. Suppose:
egypt buys 20 fc-1 for 200 million$. CAC will take $50 and use it to build the fc-1s. The remaining money is cut 50/50.

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Nowhere does it say that, does it?

50/50 of dev costs were split between Pakistan and China. But this doesn't mean Pakistan gets 50/50 of profits or revenue from CAC's exports!

I think you are making an assumption here.

For China, the FC1 is for EXPORT. And CAC is a corporation interested in making profits. Why would they give away 50% of profits? CAC will have manufacturing assembly lines for building export FC1s.

For Pakistan, the FC1 project gives it some technical knowhow, and some independent manufacturing ability. And there will be a manufacturing line built in Pakistan to build Pakistan JF17s. But I don't think Pakistan will get 50% share of profits when CAC exports FC1's built in China to Egypt, or Bangladesh!

Pakistan would not have another manufacturing line, to build export FC1's for CAC. They already will be busy building JF17s for Pakistan.

Your scenario that Pakistan and China share 50/50 profits do not make sense.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

I did not say 50:50, I said profits will be split - may it be 1%, 2%, or 50% for Pakistan, they will be split. PAC is basically a branch of the PAF as its engineers and scientists are commissioned PAF officers. However Pakistan will receive some of the profit from JF-17, mark my words on it; otherwise the PAF would have just bought JF-17 with license production.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

No, the agreement is to share net profits at 50% each. I really do not know why people are out debunking the fact. Agreement is there and no matter what you or I say, it will not change that fact.

Let us not start a flame based on what we think the split should be. The two Governments have already decided that. And that is the fact.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

pshamim said:

No, the agreement is to share net profits at 50% each. I really do not know why people are out debunking the fact. Agreement is there and no matter what you or I say, it will not change that fact.

Let us not start a flame based on what we think the split should be. The two Governments have already decided that. And that is the fact.

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Got links to prove that?

I've been asking for proof. So far, I just hear opinions.

You guys have to provide some article that supports your theories that PAC and CAC will share profits with each other.

Based on what I've read, the 50/50 is only mentioned about sharing developmental costs. There is no mention of splitting profits of any kind.

Pakistan is going to have it's hands full just manufacturing it's 150+ JF17s. How can it build any JF17s for export?

CAC on the other hand intends to export the FC1 and will build lines to do so. I cannot imagine CAC giving any profits to PAC, for what purpose? It has already given PAC technology transfer.

This scenario you guys have created doesn't make any sense.

Say China decides to buy 1000 FC1s, does it make sense that PAC will get 50% of profits?

That is highly unlikely.

I think you guys are confused or assumed that profits will be shared between PAC and CAC.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

skyhawk2005 said:

Got links to prove that?

I've been asking for proof. So far, I just hear opinions.

You guys have to provide some article that supports your theories that PAC and CAC will share profits with each other.

Based on what I've read, the 50/50 is only mentioned about sharing developmental costs. There is no mention of splitting profits of any kind.

Pakistan is going to have it's hands full just manufacturing it's 150+ JF17s. How can it build any JF17s for export?

CAC on the other hand intends to export the FC1 and will build lines to do so. I cannot imagine CAC giving any profits to PAC, for what purpose? It has already given PAC technology transfer.

This scenario you guys have created doesn't make any sense.

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That is the unfortunate part that most of people's knowledge is link based. Being a former PAF pilot, and a country Manager of Peacegate Program for General Dynamics, I still have many contacts inAF. Many among top PAF offocers are my students. I still keep in touch and privy to lot of information that is not on the Web.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

pshamim said:

That is the unfortunate part that most of people's knowledge is link based. Being a former PAF pilot, and a country Manager of Peacegate Program for General Dynamics, I still have many contacts inAF. Many among top PAF offocers are my students. I still keep in touch and privy to lot of information that is not on the Web.

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Then why don't you give us the answer to the scenario.

1> China decides to buy 1000 FC1s. Pakistan gets 50% of profits?

2> CAC exports 1000 Chinese manufactured FC1s to various countries over the next 15 years. Pakistan does not manufacture any as it needs it's own.

Pakistan gets 50% of profits?

Explain to us how this works.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

It works this way. Export sales, profit split 50/50. For own forces(PLAAF &PAF) profits won't be split.

umairdt said:

It works this way. Export sales, profit split 50/50. For own forces(PLAAF &PAF) profits won't be split.

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And you get this info from where? So if CAC exports CHINESE made FC1s to Egypt, Pakistan receives 50% of the profits, which did not make any JF17s because it is struggling to meet it's own needs for the PAF?

Does this make any business sense?

So Pakistan is going to receive batches of JF17s from CAC. Does CAC pay PAF 50% of it's profits?

LOL. see how ridiculous this is?

I don't think you guys are correct.

Now, if the agreement is that for any JF17s that are equally manufactured by CAC and PAC, profits are split 50/50, that makes sense.

Say CAC makes the Avionics, engine, while PAC makes the airframe. So each cost is 50/50, and they export that to a 3rd country, then it would make sense to split profits.

However, I doubt PAC will manufacture any JF17s for export for at least 10 years! They are going to be needing every JF17 for it's own PAF.

And it doesn't make any business sense for PAC to get 50% or any profits of Exported FC1s that it did not directly manufacture.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

skyhawk2005 said:

No I'm not twisting anything. If people can provide links or articles that support their claim, I have no problems with it.

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UmairDT is correct. Every aircraft produced for export to any country other than China and Pakistan, the two Governments will share profits equually.
Unfortunately, your posts prove that you have no factual based information from the two Governments involved. You are limited to links and articles only.
there is no point to reason with you as you have own opinion which are pretty far from facts.

Ask the Pakistani and Chinese Governments what the agreements are and report rather than preaching opinions. My position is based on what the Director Budget at Pakistan Ministry of Defence has told me. What is yours based on-Internet and Links?
Regards

Re: JF-17: New Pics

pshamim said:

UmairDT is correct. Every aircraft produced for export to any country other than China and Pakistan, the two Governments will share profits equually.
Unfortunately, your posts prove that you have no factual based information from the two Governments involved. You are limited to links and articles only.
there is no point to reason with you as you have own opinion which are pretty far from facts.

Ask the Pakistani and Chinese Governments what the agreements are and report rather than preaching opinions. My position is based on what the Director Budget at Pakistan Ministry of Defence has told me. What is yours based on-Internet and Links?
Regards

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I keep having to repeat myself with you. You claim to be an insider. Fine, but you do realize that on the internet, anyone can claim to be anything. I'm not doubting you, but that is not the point.

All I ask is a few articles or links that verify your claims, and then I might be more open to believing you. Until then, you've only provided your opinions, which is not evidence or proof.

Tell me this. How is Pakistan supposed to manufacture JF17's for export? Will they not be busy manufacturing JF17s for their own use?

IF you claim to be an insider, answer this question.