JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 News, Discussion & Media

Re: JF-17: New Pics

Yeah, I thought i'd post, since i saw this on the CCTV1 news this morning. Yes, this is official. Like L-15, 04's first flight news is broadcasted all over China. what does that mean? China is trying its hardest to market this thing. Don't believe all that stuff about first time it's ever used in China, it's using technology from J-10 (which is a good thing, since the technology would have been tested out a little bit already). Anyhow, I'm just eagerly awaiting to see how many export orders this thing gets.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

Here's a link from CDF of a short video of the test flight.



Simply on looks, never was a big fan of the original design. It looked too 70s, early 80s era. But the 04 looks more modern especially when you see it from the underside on take-off.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

Is pakistan allowed to export JF17s independently without China?

If China exports it, does Pakistan receive 50% of the sales?

Re: JF-17: New Pics

PAF officials have confirmed the PT-4 as well. The PAF spokesman said that the PT-4 will officialy be inugurated by Chinese and Pakistani officials in the 2nd week of may, 2006.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

skyhawk2005 said:

Is pakistan allowed to export JF17s independently without China?

If China exports it, does Pakistan receive 50% of the sales?

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Pakistan has sure been marketing it independently (but there is definitely backing by Chinese on it). and few countries e.g. Bangladesh convayed the interest to purchase Fc-1/JF-17 to Pakistan instead of China. Plus 50% partnership means equal rights. So I think yes Pakistan can export it independently but Pakistan wont be selling it without confirming Chinese and it definitely wont sell to countries considering China as their enemy. So the Pakistani export independence would still be bounded independence.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

SABRE said:

Pakistan has sure been marketing it independently (but there is definitely backing by Chinese on it). and few countries e.g. Bangladesh convayed the interest to purchase Fc-1/JF-17 to Pakistan instead of China. Plus 50% partnership means equal rights. So I think yes Pakistan can export it independently but Pakistan wont be selling it without confirming Chinese and it definitely wont sell to countries considering China as their enemy. So the Pakistani export independence would still be bounded independence.

Click to expand...

Do you have any links to authenticate your claims? 50% partnership is a little vague. Does this partnership only extend to PAF sales?

As far as I understand, the FC1 was meant for export sales for China, and also as a venture with Pakistan for her own Air Force. But whether that means Pakistan can now sell JF17s independently with consent from China does not make any business sense if China herself intends to sell these planes abroad.

I think we need more evidence to fully understand the nature of this partnership.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

The production line at Kamra would only produce 20-25 planes a year - and if anything, PAC would accomodate for PAF's needs first. PAC will likely not build that many aircraft per year until 2010 or even 2012; so it is safe to assume that all JF-17s built in Pakistan will be built for PAF. So China will be exporting the JF-17 - perhaps to get the PAF specification they will need to be fitted with avionics and such in Pakistan; however profits will be split between the countries

Re: JF-17: New Pics

You guys need to realize the profits are not split between the countries, but the companies. When CAC sells an fc-1, half the profts go to PAC. A small amount might go to mikoyan aerospace, as it was a subcontractor. Vice versa is the same.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

You guys are making assumptions about this.

Provide some links that state that profits/revenue are split between CAC and PAC.

This is what SinoDefence says:

Following the 1993 US sanction against China and Pakistan on the transfer of ballistic missile components and technology, problems of acquiring Western technology has driven Pakistan to seek helps from its Chinese ally. Beijing and Islamabad concluded a joint development and production agreement in June 1999 to co-develop the FC-1 fighter aircraft. According to the agreement, China Aviation Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) and Pakistan each contribute 50% of the development costs, which was estimated as about US$150 million. Chengdu was chosen to be the primary contractor, with Russian Mikoyan Aero-Science Production Group (MASPG) providing assistance in some design work as well as its RD-93 turbofan engine to power the aircraft.

The first FC-1 rolled out from the assembly line on 31 May 2003, and its 15-minute maiden flight took place on 24 August 2003. So far four prototypes have been built, with the second for static tests and the rest in flying tests. The initial production of 16 aircraft is expected to start in mid-2006, and the PAF has a requirement for 150 aircraft under the designation of the JF-17 to replace its Chengdu F-7P fighters in current service. Pakistani aviation industry will also be involved in the production of some avionics for the aircraft.

The FC-1 is mainly targeting the international market as a potential replacement for the second-generation fighters such as the Northrop F-5 Tiger, Dassault Mirage III/5, Shenyang J-6, MiG-21/F-7 Fishbed, and Nanchang Q-5 aircraft. CATIC and CAC are trying to persuade the PLAAF to acquire additional FC-1s to reduce the unit price, but a firm contract has yet been reached. In addition, CATIC/CAC is also trying to promote the aircraft to other potential customers including Bangladesh, Egypt and Nigeria.


It says nothing about PAC and CATIC/CAC sharing 50% of the profits.

I think CATIC/CAC would receive profits from its exports including to Pakistan.

Pakistan would profit from acquiring some tech, and knowhow, as well as receiving 150 JF17s which they need.

Re: JF-17: New Pics

CAC and PAC will not share the EARNINGs 50/50, but because each contributed equally to the development costs, the profits go 50/50. Suppose:
egypt buys 20 fc-1 for 200 million$. CAC will take $50 and use it to build the fc-1s. The remaining money is cut 50/50.