JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Zahid]

This question may have already been answer on this thread, but is there any news about block 2 JF-17? When is it entering in service? Waiting to see a real block 2 and not fanboy artwork.
Additionally will there be IRST or AESA on block 2 or not? And what about SD-10B and WS-13 in BLOCK-2. Thanks in advance.

JF-17 Block II is expected to have IFR capability via a fixed probe. Also a few improvements in Avionics, particularly RADAR, are expected. But it is not expected to have IRST or AESA. It is too early to talk about WS-13 right now, since there is hardly any news about it. I have asked about it a couple of times on this forum, but have received no response at all.

Improvements such as IRST, AESA, and others are probably planned for Block III, which shall follow in 2015/2016. Adding these systems can be done upon request I suppose, and money would be a big part of any such decision. These systems would increase the price seriously.

I am quite sure that Argentina would want a version tailored to their needs. Since it would take a bit of time to finalize a deal, Block III might already be certified by the time FAA plans are finalized.

 

[Zahid]

成飞加紧枭龙试验 为下一步技术升级奠定基础
2013-10-28 13:44中国航空报
我有话说
字号：TT
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“枭龙”试验紧锣密鼓

　　进入四季度，中航工业成飞试飞站加快了“枭龙”飞机的多项科研试验，相继完成了操纵软轴试验、飞行改装试飞和各类补充试验，取得了多项重要数据和阶段性成果，为下一步“枭龙”飞机技术升级奠定了基础。图为试飞站飞行试验室的技术人员正在作数据记录分析。

　　本报通讯员　张小洪　余燕　摄影报道

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"Fierce Dragon" test in full swing

Entering the fourth quarter, the aircraft industry to speed up the CAC test station "Fierce Dragon" aircraft, a number of research trials have been completed and the manipulation of flexible shaft test, flight test, and various additional test modifications, made a number of important data and initial results for the next step "Fierce Dragon" aircraft technology upgrades foundation. The picture shows the flight test station laboratory technicians are for data recording and analysis.

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I found the above at Pakistan Defense Forum and thought that it might be of interest.

 

[Hyperwarp]

I am surprised no one has yet shared the news of imminent export sale of FC-1 / JF-17. Here it is:

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There are no details attached with this news. Over at PDF, people are speculating that the customer is probably Sri Lanka.

Maybe, but I haven't heard anything from the Govt. Information Dept. and more importantly the Ministry of Defence. Maybe they have already signed the deal but no official word.

 

[Munir]

Block 2 (the second batch) will definitely not have AESA. You need some testing before that comes operational. As said more then a few times by official sources it will have some upgrades in avionics and IFR. Putting it differently... How many already have AESA that the JF17 is to late getting one?

 

[Dizasta1]

I think it is pretty clear that JF-17 Thunder will eventually get the AESA radar which Pakistan Air Force has been after for quite sometime now. Whether it be in the Block-III Thunders or Block-IVs, the aircraft is suppose to have WS-13s, AESA, IFR, Dual-Seater and an improved EWS.

Question is, whether Pakistan Air Force would be eager enough for the AESA, that they would sort a pathway for the acquisition of J-10Bs. Of course, that also depends on the time table on when the J-10B enters full-scale production. And, on whether China would be able to accomodate production of J-10Bs meant for Pakistan, with PLAAF's fleet induction requirements.

In my opinion, a combination of J-10Bs and JF-17s, where both aircraft are equipped with AESA radars, SD-10 missiles, WS-10/WS-13s engines, IFR probes and advance EW systems. Would prove to be more than adequate fire-power for Pakistan Air Force, for the coming decade and a half.

At the present moment, the Pakistan Air Force's primary objective is to attain a decent number of advance combat aircraft, a greater number of Electronic Warfare aircraft, AWACS/AEWs and IFR aircraft.

Since there was a 5 year period (2008-2013), where a bunch of parasites (PPP-Govt) were in power. The economy had all but completely collapsed. This put a huge strain on Pakistan Air Force's plans for fleet modernization, which was in full swing until 2009/early 2010. Now, Insha-Allah, the economy is gradually improving and should eventually show a change for the better for Pakistani public. With it, Pakistan Air Force should also slowly recover and get back into high gear for fleet modernization.

 

[vesicles]

Question is, whether Pakistan Air Force would be eager enough for the AESA, that they would sort a pathway for the acquisition of J-10Bs. Of course, that also depends on the time table on when the J-10B enters full-scale production. And, on whether China would be able to accomodate production of J-10Bs meant for Pakistan, with PLAAF's fleet induction requirements.

You make it sound like Pakistan is the one determining whether J-10B goes to Pakistan. It sounds like that as soon as Pakistan is willing, China would be happy to provide whatever Pakistan needs... One additional factor, which may be even more important than the willingness of Pakistan to buy J-10B, is whether China wants to sell it within the time table of Pakistan. At this point, we don't even know if China wants to sell J-10A, let alone J-10B. So the question is not whether China would be able to accommodate production of J-10Bs meant for Pakistan, but whether China is willing to accommodate production of J-10Bs meant for Pakistan. I may be over sensitive on this, but I feel that your statement put China in the very passive position. It sounds like Pakistan is telling China "OK, your stuff is now good enough for us. Now give us this and give us that. And don't you think about keeping any of it to yourself because we are doing you a favor by wanting it..." J-10B is China's plane. China decides when and to whom to sell it.

 

[Zahid]

You make it sound like Pakistan is the one determining whether J-10B goes to Pakistan. It sounds like that as soon as Pakistan is willing, China would be happy to provide whatever Pakistan needs... One additional factor, which may be even more important than the willingness of Pakistan to buy J-10B, is whether China wants to sell it within the time table of Pakistan. At this point, we don't even know if China wants to sell J-10A, let alone J-10B. So the question is not whether China would be able to accommodate production of J-10Bs meant for Pakistan, but whether China is willing to accommodate production of J-10Bs meant for Pakistan. I may be over sensitive on this, but I feel that your statement put China in the very passive position. It sounds like Pakistan is telling China "OK, your stuff is now good enough for us. Now give us this and give us that. And don't you think about keeping any of it to yourself because we are doing you a favor by wanting it..." J-10B is China's plane. China decides when and to whom to sell it.

You have raised a very good point, and I concur with your view.

However, I wonder what was the much talked about deal of (what PAF called) FC-20 - most people thought that it was supposed to be J-10B. There are rumors that J-10B design had some input from PAF. Perhaps all these were just rumors, or perhaps PAF has had a change of plans considering regional situation and the rapid pace of development of China's Aviation industry. There is a strong possibility that PAF wants to partner with Chinese Aviation industry in a stealth combat aircraft. J-31 could be it, especially since it is supposed to use WS-13 and hence there probably would be commonality with JF-17 future development plans. In any case current JF-17 and J-31 prototype both use RD-93.

 

[plawolf]

The J31 is still likely a decade away from IOC, for an export model at least. Pakistan does not have the financial muscle to finance a 5th gen's development by themselves, so if the J31 is to reach operational status, it will need PLA backing, which in turn means the PLA will get the first production models.

As such, the J31 or a CAC equivalent (which would likely be even further off) is a long term investment and development prospect. For the short to medium term, the PAF would be extremely well served to get the J10A or B models, even if in limited number.

A small to modest number of J10Bs would not fundamentally change the peacetime balance of power in the subcontinent, but what it does provide is an opportunity for the PAF to train up a good core of pilots who are proficient on the J10B. Ideally, they should buy a good number of simulators and make sure most of their fighter pilots are qualified on the type, maybe even rotate pilots onto the J10Bs they do have to make sure as many pilots are familiar with the type as possible.

Doing that would open up a number of options for both the PAF and PLAAF for both peacetime and wartime.

During peacetime, PAF pilots who have qualified on the J10B can travel to China without much fanfare and attention and take part in PLAAF exercises to help both sides hone their skills. PLAAF pilots can do the reverse and get first hand experience flying against late model F16s or even M2K-5s and maybe in the future Typhoons as well if friendly Gulf States send their best planes to Pakistan for exercises.

In wartime, if the PAF has a good core of J10B qualified pilots, China would have the option of flying in new built or even PLAAF J10Bs for the PAF to use, much like how they rush delivered F7s in the past.

 

[vesicles]

You have raised a very good point, and I concur with your view.

However, I wonder what was the much talked about deal of (what PAF called) FC-20 - most people thought that it was supposed to be J-10B. There are rumors that J-10B design had some input from PAF. Perhaps all these were just rumors, or perhaps PAF has had a change of plans considering regional situation and the rapid pace of development of China's Aviation industry. There is a strong possibility that PAF wants to partner with Chinese Aviation industry in a stealth combat aircraft. J-31 could be it, especially since it is supposed to use WS-13 and hence there probably would be commonality with JF-17 future development plans. In any case current JF-17 and J-31 prototype both use RD-93.

I have no problem with China exporting J-10B, or Pakistan importing it. In fact, I think it's bound to happen one of these days based on how much collaboration the two nations have.

I guess my issue is with the way the statement was made in the above post. Many people still have this mentality that puts China on the inferior side of things, even when China is the one providing the advanced technology. It just feels kind of weird when people only consider what Pakistan needs and how well China can accommodate to these needs when it comes to China exporting weapon systems. It seems that China's needs are not even in the equation. And whenever Pakistan wants something, China should simply put that thing on a silver platter and run over to the Pakistani. Even worse, how fast and how effective China can put things on the silver platter was actually questioned... It just sounds wrong. Typically in this kind of situation, the owner of the weapon systems should have most of the say since he is the owner. But everything seems to flips when China is in the equation.

 

[timepass]

You make it sound like Pakistan is the one determining whether J-10B goes to Pakistan. It sounds like that as soon as Pakistan is willing, China would be happy to provide whatever Pakistan needs... One additional factor, which may be even more important than the willingness of Pakistan to buy J-10B, is whether China wants to sell it within the time table of Pakistan. At this point, we don't even know if China wants to sell J-10A, let alone J-10B. So the question is not whether China would be able to accommodate production of J-10Bs meant for Pakistan, but whether China is willing to accommodate production of J-10Bs meant for Pakistan. I may be over sensitive on this, but I feel that your statement put China in the very passive position. It sounds like Pakistan is telling China "OK, your stuff is now good enough for us. Now give us this and give us that. And don't you think about keeping any of it to yourself because we are doing you a favor by wanting it..." J-10B is China's plane. China decides when and to whom to sell it.

I don't know why people cant digest PAK-China friendship. The Imprecision (Whatever PAK needs can get from Chinese friends) just cant build blindly its proven in the past also. Don't ask me for examples go & do Google.

As far as FC 20 is concerned, initially PAF went for J10As but when Indians move to Rafale, PAF hold their horses & moved towards to J10B. There are rumors that PAF did put some input on for J10Bs.