JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
- Thread starter johnqh
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asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
I don't think you know the definition of slow, 50 aircraft in 3 years is not slow
It took 8 years to get 18 F16 C/D block 52+, and all the money went out of the country, and we still dont have the source codes, 50 aircraft for PAC for its first every assembely of such a aircraft is a feat of engineering for them, more importantly the money stayed in the country to provide jobs for our own citizens, delays and over runs no issue it's a home grown product
And actaully there is no delay in the project there has never been, the list of weapons that have been integrated into platform is enormous, the Block II is on schedule and it's Pakistans national project which gets a lot of resources
I remember people saying when this project started it will never fly, it has, then it will never be inducted, it has and then it will never reach operational status, well it has done that too, same people are now saying we will never see Block II, well somehow I dont believe it
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Everybody knows by now that China won't be using a large number of RD-93 for themselves . In other words most of the engines are destined for Pakistan . India on the other hand has leverage with Russia (as largest buyer of Russian weapons) . Therefore , don't expect smooth supply of RD-93s for JF-17 program . Don't have to believe me , check the numbers yourself .
The India leverage has long been rebuke. If India has such leverage compare to China, RD-93 engine re export deal will not even go through in the first place. Can you explain why? And I didn't know being the largest buyer of Russian arms can get sch shabby treatment from Russian with plenty of recontract and delay?
The slow induction and delivery of engines got nothing to do with India leverage urban legend.
There are various non-confirmed articles on the on-going negotiations and tech transfers. One article claims that the locally produced FC-1 would be named "Arrow III", but these claims cannot be confirmed.
Argentina is also negotiating with Spain to buy used Mirage F-1M's:
However, the above article may be incorrect on the number of aircraft and cost. Depending on which source, I've seen claims ranging from 8 to 20 aircraft under negotiation.
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Miragedriver
Brigadier
Details in the press are sketchy at best and of course the rumors in Latin American forums are rampant. However, from what I have been told (and this is not reliable since my source has been misinformed in the past); The details for signing the production contract between the firm FC-1/JF-17 Chengdu Aircraft Corporation and Argentina Aircraft Factory (FadeA), still have to be finalized.
Negotiations have stalled, in terms of the constraints regarding "technology transfer"; however, they represent the first formal attempt for the co-production of Chinese advanced military aircraft in Latin America.
A license agreement that China is seeking is in the range of $us600m to $us740m however, the Argentine government is only willing to pay $300m to $us450m. As a side note I find it amusing that with all the equipment that China has copied from other nation, that they would be so concerned about "technology transfer",
While discussions are said to be far from over, if realized they will open up a wide availability of Chinese weapon systems to Argentina that include the 100 km-range Luoyang SD-10A (PL-12) active radar-guided beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missile (AAM) and the very high speed CASIC CM-400AKG anti-ship missile, which has a range of 180-250 km. Argentina is look at producing between 45 to 60 aircraft.
FAdeA officials are hoping for a potential co-production of the FC-1/JF-17. Nonetheless, the discussions are the first formal effort that could lead to the co-production of a modern Chinese fighter in Latin America. FAdeA officials added that the co-produced FC-1 could be called the 'Pulqui-III', recalling FAdeA's Pulqui-II; Latin America's first swept wing jet fighter, which was designed by Germany's Kurt Tank for the government of Juan Peron.
vesicles
Colonel
That is easy to understand. Everyone does it. When you are poor, you want the wealthy people to share their money with you (the Democrats). When you become rich, you no longer want to share with anyone (the Republicans).
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
.... Wow that wasn't politically motivated at all..... ::rolls::
the Chinese I believe are more worried about three points.
1) being under cut with there own technologies. They have a almost monopoly status with a number of third world nations and they want to keep it that way.
2) prevent possible secondary export to adversary states and potential adversary states. In the cold war the US and UK both acquired state of the art Warsaw pact goodies by buying them off soured client states including the USAF Buying Chinese built copies right from the factory.
3) potential loss of control. The Chinese government is designed as a huge control freak, most are. If you control the export you have a leash on whoever buys. If they break from you you cut them off. Those systems they bought rust for lack of critical parts.
the Chinese I believe are more worried about three points.
1) being under cut with there own technologies. They have a almost monopoly status with a number of third world nations and they want to keep it that way.
2) prevent possible secondary export to adversary states and potential adversary states. In the cold war the US and UK both acquired state of the art Warsaw pact goodies by buying them off soured client states including the USAF Buying Chinese built copies right from the factory.
3) potential loss of control. The Chinese government is designed as a huge control freak, most are. If you control the export you have a leash on whoever buys. If they break from you you cut them off. Those systems they bought rust for lack of critical parts.
JF-17 would definitely be a good replacement for argentina's aging fighters, and provide a true BVR and stand off A2G capability at probably the best price to capability ratio in the world, which is probably important given the country's economy isn't exactly roaring.
Argentina's economy isn't that terrible, actually. It's inflation has been very high, but it's slowed down in recent years. Upside of it was very high, china like GDP growth in last decade or so, which has also slowed down with less inflation in last year or so and is now decent 3-4 %.
There is money in argentina's government, but there is also a purpuseful choice NOT to invest it in military. Military budget has been dropping in relative terms (and staying the same in absolute terms) for the last decade. in 2012 it was 0.92% of the GDP. Huge issue for argentina is that it's a big country with long borders and it has to have a fairly large armed forces, personnel wise. on 4.75 billion dollar budget (2012) that is a huge burden and what's left after personnel expenses is just crumbles. It's actually pretty amazing Argentina found money for both Pampa III programme and this Mirage f1 buy.
If the government chose to increase the defense budget to some 1.5% or so, that'd literally usher a new era for argentina's military, after a decade or more of neglect. But i guess politicians in argetina may be wary of giving money to military. it may make them more influental, and that's the last thing they want.
Who's to say, maybe after Cristina there'll be a new government that will give army a bit more money. Then a 600-700 million programme for jf-17 cooperation won't be a lot of money anymore.
There is money in argentina's government, but there is also a purpuseful choice NOT to invest it in military. Military budget has been dropping in relative terms (and staying the same in absolute terms) for the last decade. in 2012 it was 0.92% of the GDP. Huge issue for argentina is that it's a big country with long borders and it has to have a fairly large armed forces, personnel wise. on 4.75 billion dollar budget (2012) that is a huge burden and what's left after personnel expenses is just crumbles. It's actually pretty amazing Argentina found money for both Pampa III programme and this Mirage f1 buy.
If the government chose to increase the defense budget to some 1.5% or so, that'd literally usher a new era for argentina's military, after a decade or more of neglect. But i guess politicians in argetina may be wary of giving money to military. it may make them more influental, and that's the last thing they want.
Who's to say, maybe after Cristina there'll be a new government that will give army a bit more money. Then a 600-700 million programme for jf-17 cooperation won't be a lot of money anymore.