JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[hkbc]

Isn't JF-17 the same class with the Indian Tejas? What's the point if Pakistan WILL be able to design/build fighter that would be considered old if not obsolete when time comes?

Baby steps! You have to start some where, 30 years ago the Chinese were making rehashed MiG 21s now they're prototyping stealth fighters. If you don't make a start you'll never get to the finish!

However, there are some key differences between Pakistan and China in that the Chinese rode on the back of policies that encouraged a rapid industrialisation leading to a manufacturing wave, coupled with a general western arms embargo for 20 years which forced self reliance. This has given them a broad and largely competitive technical base (metallurgy, IC production etc) and manufacturing capacity upon which to advance and innovate, it also helps that with 8-10% annual GDP growth they can afford it. There is little evidence that such a base exists in Pakistan nor does it necessarily have the wealth to build one quickly.

There is the example given of the KJL-7 radars "manufactured" in Pakistan, but are they assembling it from Chinese components or are they actually building the underlying electronics from scratch in their own plants? The difference is that if you don't control the end to end supply chain you are not in real control.

 

[plawolf]

Isn't JF-17 the same class with the Indian Tejas? What's the point if Pakistan WILL be able to design/build fighter that would be considered old if not obsolete when time comes?

Obsolete is a loaded and inaccurate term western 'experts' and their corporate backers/masters love to throw around because it gives them a sense of superiority since the term is only ever used to describe weapons of competitors or rivals (when was the last time anyone heard a western aircraft being described as 'obsolete'? And it's not like there are no candidates, take the 'venerable' Super Etandart, early F16s or even the Tornado), and because it helps to sell new airplanes.

Oh that model you are using is obsolete, what you want is the newest flashiest toys, and it just so happens my buddies/sources/paymasters at BAE/EADS/LockMart has just what I think you should buy.

The JF17 has newer and more advanced features and capabilities than all of the models I gave as examples above and many more besides, and will give all of them a good run for their money if not a downright spanking in a fight, yet how come it is only the JF17 that is ever referred to as 'obsolete'?

It was an 'obsolete' SAM that shot down the F117 wonderjet and it was with obsolete ATGMs that Hezballah managed to fight the mighty Israeli military to a standstill.

Anyone who has actually seen real combat will tell you there is no sure thing as 'obsolete' on the battlefield.

Even if we take the sentiment at face value, having an outdated jet is better than only having a paper airplane. If the Indians could swop their LCA for the JF17, they would snap your hand off.

 

[asif iqbal]

Whoever said that will Pakistan build its own fighter, answer is, No, why? Because we don’t need to

All we need is to establish JF17 production capability, and Chinese will be there on the ground for decades to come, this job never finishes, we have still have French at PAC and Mirage III was bought in 1967!! There’s always updates and upgrades and Chinese will follow this project through all the way

Secondly PAF operates F16 C/D Block 52+ and JF17, and we cut the F16 order to just 18 units, we were offered more and had the finances in place but a follow on order was never sent for another 18 more, simply because JF17 can fulfil that role, and if PAF is happy with it then that leaves no room for anyone else to be asking silly questions like is it as good as F16??

The JF17 carrys such a vast array of weapons I am struggling to think of another fighter that can do so much, in 2009 it was also carrying out COIN opps, from WVR to anti-ship role this aircraft defines the term “multi-role”

In close quarters combat JF17 is as good as F16, here is a link of the prototype first flown in March 2007 against turning circle with F16, that was 5 years ago, todays JF17 could probably do one better


F-16 Vs JF-17 Turn-Rate Comparison. - YouTube

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Blackstone]

Looks like the JF-17 will get new Chinese ARMs.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

China's first ARM breaks cover

By Robert Hewson

11/29/2012

A new air-launched anti-radiation missile (ARM) is being promoted for export by the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC). The LD-10 ( Lei Dian = Thunderbolt) is a product of the Luoyang Optoelectro Technology Development Centre (LOEC) - AVIC's primary air weapons specialist - and is closely based on LOEC's SD-10 (PL-12) beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (AAM).

The LD-10 was exhibited in public for the first time at Airshow China 2012, which was held in Zhuhai from 13-18 November. The LD-10 is the first dedicated ARM to be observed in China, and LOEC officials told IHS Jane's the weapon was already in production for an (unnamed) export customer.

AVIC data identify the PAC/AVIC JF-17 Thunder (FC-1) lightweight fighter as a "typical carrier aircraft" for the LD-10. This points directly to the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) as the customer for the missile.

At Airshow China, a senior PAF officer noted that the Brazilian-built Mectron MAR-1 ARM was already integrated and operational with the JF-17 but suggested it was preferable to have "options" when it came to future JF-17 exports.

 

[weig2000]

Official Chinese video on the development history of JF-17/FC-1:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

There are a lot of disclosure on how it got started, the involvement of the US company, the first flight and some specs. The main cast of characters etc.

Some interesting tidbit: The program was on a very tight schedule from signing the contract to the first flight (30 months), but at the request of the then PAF Chief of Staff, it was accelerated by a few months because the he said he would want the first flight of FC-1/JF-17 to happen before he left office so that he could place the first order for JF-17.

Unfortunately it's in Chinese. Please feel free to translate some parts that may be interesting to any of you.

 

[Lezt]

Sir,

It will never happen---two heads are better than one---when european nations are having joint ventures for fighter aircraft---why does china or pakistan need to make each their own---.

Remember the concept ot TEAM---together everyone achieves more.

This is actually contrary to history, Most JV for weapon systems are a huge flop. There are some sucess like Euro Typhoon or the Euro Tiger. but Look at the F35... MBT70, or earlier projects like, the T14 tank,

The fact is, more partners = more vested interests, and diverging requirements.

More heads = more ideas, = more time debating and less time coming to a solution.

 

[A.Man]

The Sri Lanka Air Force is due to is arranging to purchase six JF -17 planes, according to the progress freport of Ministry of Defense and Urban Development. These aircraft are due to be purchased under the 2013 finalised projects.

The JF-17 (Thunder) co-developed by Pakistan Air Force and China Aero Technology Import Export Cooperation (CATIC) and co-produced by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC)

The JF-17 Thunder is an all weather, multi-role, light combat aircraft that has the potential to be the main stay & work horse of any Air Force.

In addition, 17 Mi-17 helicopters and 02 B.206 helicopters are also due to be purchased. These are to be utilized for passenger transport.

The Mi-17 medium multi purpose helicopter is produced by Kazan Helicopters. The B 026 is built by Bell helicopters.

However the time span within which the purchased are to be made has not been determined.

 

[SteelBird]

JF-17 goes shopping on Karachi night street.

 

[hardware]

Looks like the JF-17 will get new Chinese ARMs.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

LD-10 ARM is very similiar to TW Skysword ASM,skysword was air to air missile converted into ANTI RADIATION missile.
skysword use cone shape spiral antenna rather than slotted antenna.
but thdate there's not enough info about LD-10 like for example do LD-10 adapt dual seeker?

 

[paintgun]

the buzz around forums is Srilanka looking to purchase 6 JF-17

seems like they are finally committing to this line of choice, after observing a steady development on the JF-17

no second hand F-16? JF-17 you go, more exports to come!