JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[hmmwv]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

Unfortunately, we aren't sure if J-10B will ever enter production. To me, J-10B is just a testbed for J-20.

If that's the case they didn't test much, didn't they? DSI was already used on FC1, holograph HUD was used on J11B, ESA radar has different size, the only thing transferred to J20 is probably the formation light.

 

[Munir]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

Let us make it simple. The planes are parked near eachother on the tarmac. The engineers are interchangeable. Same goes for those that design the plane. We know that for fact about the Fc1 and J10. The reason they kept the price of Fc1 low is that because they used lots of tech from J10. So we can say that there is lot of cross feeding. If it was the formation light only then we could have all a big laugh.

 

[Dizasta1]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

Given the threat level, with india having not only procured up to 270 Su-30 Flankers. They are now in the process of procuring possibly 200 Rafales, and if you add the PAK-FA to the mix, india intends to induct at least 250 of the Russian Stealth Fighters.

I find that China should not miss the opportunity in the development of total indigenization of JF-17s, J-10Bs, J-11Bs and J-20s. It is imperative that the WS-10 Taihang and the WS-13 Taishan engines are developed, refined and brought up the standards where they can effectively challenge their western counter-parts. These engines, when refined to high performance and endurance, would prove to be not only indispensable to China, but also ensure that there is total independence in manufacturing and operational value.

In the era of high performance fighters and now unmanned combat air-systems, China would find the conquering of developing engines, to it's advantage. Where not only would these engines be powering the manned combat aircraft of China, but also, in the future, unmanned combat air-systems.

The J-10B, is a symbol of the Chinese mastering the development of fourth generation fighters. The mass production of J-10B, would ensure that China has a fighter in its inventory, which is not only able to challenge its adversary, but defeat it as well. However, to defeat the enemy, China must understand the value of numbers, when it comes to the mass production of fighters. One can see how this advantage has worked for the United States, where no country on earth has been able to challenge it, since the end of the Cold War.

J-10B not only represents a qualitatively potent fighter produced by the East, but also represents a valuable tool in strengthening its allies' ability to defend itself. The J-10B, produced in mass numbers, would allow China and Pakistan, to effectively thwart aggression, backed up by advance Surface-to-Air Missile Network. And China would agree, that having reinforced allies, like America has done with Japan, South Korea and Europe, would only go toward projecting its power and sphere of influence.

Today South Korea is on its way to having an operational fleet of 300 F-16s, F-15s and/or F-35s. Japan is also intending to field a fleet of 300 F-2 (F-16 Variant), F-15 and/or F-35/ATD-X. And of course, not to forget hindustan (india), which intends to have a fleet of 650+ fighter that include Su-30 Flankers, Rafales and PAK-FA. With these figures in mind, China should not discount the deployment of at least 70 F-22 Raptors in the Pacific, as well as nearly 6 US aircraft carriers.

These are not made up figures, they are factual and as real as it gets. So to counter such overwhelming odds, it is important to not only produce quality fighters in acceptable quantities, but also to forge strong alliances with your neighbors.

 

[Munir]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

It takes India decade to handle all the planes you mentioned. And China is already busy with J20. Adding to that, what will the danger be of Rafale or MKI? You gotta pass Himalaya and even then you need longer legs to go deep in China. Pakistan has a pact with China. If you attack Pakistan you attack China. I think that does protect Pakistan not only from India but also another major country killer.

 

[Lion]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

Given the threat level, with india having not only procured up to 270 Su-30 Flankers. They are now in the process of procuring possibly 200 Rafales, and if you add the PAK-FA to the mix, india intends to induct at least 250 of the Russian Stealth Fighters.

I find that China should not miss the opportunity in the development of total indigenization of JF-17s, J-10Bs, J-11Bs and J-20s. It is imperative that the WS-10 Taihang and the WS-13 Taishan engines are developed, refined and brought up the standards where they can effectively challenge their western counter-parts. These engines, when refined to high performance and endurance, would prove to be not only indispensable to China, but also ensure that there is total independence in manufacturing and operational value.

In the era of high performance fighters and now unmanned combat air-systems, China would find the conquering of developing engines, to it's advantage. Where not only would these engines be powering the manned combat aircraft of China, but also, in the future, unmanned combat air-systems.

The J-10B, is a symbol of the Chinese mastering the development of fourth generation fighters. The mass production of J-10B, would ensure that China has a fighter in its inventory, which is not only able to challenge its adversary, but defeat it as well. However, to defeat the enemy, China must understand the value of numbers, when it comes to the mass production of fighters. One can see how this advantage has worked for the United States, where no country on earth has been able to challenge it, since the end of the Cold War.

J-10B not only represents a qualitatively potent fighter produced by the East, but also represents a valuable tool in strengthening its allies' ability to defend itself. The J-10B, produced in mass numbers, would allow China and Pakistan, to effectively thwart aggression, backed up by advance Surface-to-Air Missile Network. And China would agree, that having reinforced allies, like America has done with Japan, South Korea and Europe, would only go toward projecting its power and sphere of influence.

Today South Korea is on its way to having an operational fleet of 300 F-16s, F-15s and/or F-35s. Japan is also intending to field a fleet of 300 F-2 (F-16 Variant), F-15 and/or F-35/ATD-X. And of course, not to forget hindustan (india), which intends to have a fleet of 650+ fighter that include Su-30 Flankers, Rafales and PAK-FA. With these figures in mind, China should not discount the deployment of at least 70 F-22 Raptors in the Pacific, as well as nearly 6 US aircraft carriers.

These are not made up figures, they are factual and as real as it gets. So to counter such overwhelming odds, it is important to not only produce quality fighters in acceptable quantities, but also to forge strong alliances with your neighbors.

300 J-20 will pwned all the India figures you can come out with.. Those figure it ever reached will be 10 years away, the fastest.

Its logical J-11B and J-20 will be the backbone of PLAAF consider the land area China need to cover...

The sophistication, the long-legged and the heavyload.

 

[Dizasta1]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

300 J-20 will pwned all the India figures you can come out with.. Those figure it ever reached will be 10 years away, the fastest.

Its logical J-11B and J-20 will be the backbone of PLAAF consider the land area China need to cover...

The sophistication, the long-legged and the heavyload.

I respect your views dear friend, but please do keep in mind, that planning ahead is what won the West the Cold War. If you look at the U.S Air Force and its force structure, then you will see that it has more F-16s than it has the long-range F-15 C/D Eagles and F-15E Strike Eagles put together. There are over 1000 F-16s on active duty USAF fleet and less than half (475) F-15C/D/Es. This alone goes to show that size, even though matters, it is also the efficiency of engine fuel consumption and power output, that gives the F-16s the ability to fight, despite is smaller size.

China ought to recognize the effectiveness of higher-performance/lower-consumption engines, that could come out in the shape of WS-10 Taihang and WS-13 Taishan engines, which would power J-10Bs, JF-17s, J-11Bs and J-20s. The J-10B's relevance to this discussion is that the aircraft gives China a refined fighter, which is nimble in comparison to the J-20s and J-11s, but larger to its counter-parts like the F-16s and Eurofighters. J-10Bs incorporate DSI, AESA & WS-10s, these advancements supersede the capabilities of the J-10A and warrant the mass production of the advance variant.

One also should not forget that the combination of high-performance/low-consumption engines and aerial refueling, allows the J-10B to perform over land and sea and does not limit it's capabilities in anyway, vis-a-vis J-11Bs and J-20s. This is why WS-10's development, refinement and advancement is so important to not only J-10Bs, but also J-11Bs and J-20s.

I am confident, witnessing in awe, the rapid pace with which China has grown, expanded and become more powerful. That China would soon master the art of designing and manufacturing jet-engines that would be either at par or out-perform the Western counter-parts.

AESA radar is another very important area, where China is not only making headway, but also getting closer to fielding it. J-10B, was by far the only fighter, which saw the introduction of AESA radar and the redesigning of the aircraft's nose-cone, to incorporate this capability, by China. As today, nearly all Western nations are vying to incorporate AESA radar capability, with the likes of Rafale (RBE2), Eurofighter (CAPTOR-E) and the F-15 Silent Eagle (APG-82). Hence, another reason for China to manufacture more J-10Bs, rather than J-10As, for the PLAAF.

J-10B, compared to J-10A, has lower RCS, better air-intake, would have a China-Built engine, would also have AESA radar and would also field an expanded EW Suite.

So these are the reasons I can think of, that would warrant China to mass produce the J-10Bs.

---------- Post added at 01:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 AM ----------

It takes India decade to handle all the planes you mentioned. And China is already busy with J20. Adding to that, what will the danger be of Rafale or MKI? You gotta pass Himalaya and even then you need longer legs to go deep in China. Pakistan has a pact with China. If you attack Pakistan you attack China. I think that does protect Pakistan not only from India but also another major country killer.

I can appreciate the fact that Pakistan is most fortunate and lucky to have a powerful ally, such as China. And even though, my heart would want to slumber with the comfort that China has our back. I can still think of many things that Pakistan is in danger of and those things do not include hindustan's (wrongly known as india) Su-30 Flankers or Rafales.

Pakistan's vulnerabilities have already been exposed by the successful infiltration of terrorist groups such as TTP and BLA, into Pakistani territory. Another very weak and vulnerable nerve of Pakistan, is it's corrupt, criminal and traitorous politicians and government. Such are the people in power in Pakistan, that as a Pakistani, I would want to kick every single last one of them, out of Pakistan, permanently. Imagine the embarrassment of the COAS, when he sees that the new and dumbass President of Pakistan, zardari, does not pay a State-Visit to Pakistan's most important and closest ally, China, in over a year after his swearing in.

I think Pakistanis not only owe it to China, but more importantly Pakistan itself, that they become united, forge stronger ties with China and wage the strongest possible effort to achieve sufficient stability domestically and establish a robust and effective internal security. Where perhaps we Pakistanis would not go red in the face, when some retarded-BLA terrorist, kidnaps one of our Chinese ally engineers working somewhere in the Pakistani Province of Baluchistan.

These are the issues I would address, when it comes to threat analysis of Pakistan.

 

[Preux]

He was talking about the J-10 and the J-20.

Anyway, you bring up a great point. Fanboyz don't seem to realize little things like what it means when you park planes in mixed formation and what it means to the ground crew barring very specific basing conditions or ops requirements.

 

[duskylim]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

i guess i'm politically incorrect (in this forum), but i'm just not impressed by the jf-17. it seems, to me, a bit too budget and second rate for serious consideration and plaaf seems to agree. it's strictly for export to second rate economies. few countries that aren't either second rate economies, or presently desperate for combat aircraft, have expressed interest in this platform. jf-17 simply is not competitive as a a front-line combat aircraft in the present air combat context. it is essentially, a replacement for the j-7, another budget, second rate platform.

ultimately, i believe exports of the j-10b will form the backbone of china's combat aircraft sales.

On the contrary, I for one believe that the JF-17 is an ideal fighter for Pakistan and nations with similar conditions.

It is the modern equivalent of Northrop's F-5 Freedom Fighter for the new millennium, in every way.

1st is that it is a small fighter designed with a modern yet purposely NOT cutting (or some may say) bleeding-edge design.

That makes it low-cost and easy and cheap to operate - not virtues for you maybe but vitally important to those countries that seek to operate fighters. The problem is that the good is the enemy of the best.

Despite these limitations has good performance - bang for the buck.

The closest Western equivalent might have been the Swedish Gripen - if they could keep costs down.

It is far more important to buy and operate a fighter you can afford, rather than dream about one you cannot.

 

[CottageLV]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

Web Translation:

CAC to complete the the Xiaolong wing static test is still in good condition: 200% load

May 18, 03 of the "Fierce Dragon" aircraft left wing in the Central Laboratory in the aircraft industry to fly into the successful completion of the static test of the 200% load case reached the customer, which marks the improved aircraft wing strength application requirements. The results showed that, in the state of a given load, the wing structure is not destroyed, in line with the design theory. The trial for the further improvement of the kind, the wing structure to provide a full and reliable data. Fly Technical Center laboratory in accordance with the design and testing requirements in order to ensure the smooth progress of the trial, as detailed and full preparations before the official start of the trial, many times 40% load pre-test. The experiments were carried out 100%, 150%, 200% load of the three kinds of loads. The trial period, China Aviation Industry, deputy chief engineer Yang Wei went to the site and assumed personal command, an expert on Pakistan, the relevant departments of the aircraft industry, and relevant members of the unit on-site participation throughout the trial.

成飞完成枭龙机翼静力试验：200%载荷下仍然完好

5月18日，“枭龙”飞机03架左机翼在中航工业成飞技术中心试验室顺利完成200%载荷工况的静力试验，这标志着改进后的飞机机翼强度达到了客户的使用要求。

试验结果表明，在给定的载荷状态下，机翼结构未发生破坏，与设计理论相符。此次试验为该型机机翼结构的进一步改进提供了翔实可靠的数据。

为保证试验的顺利进行，成飞技术中心试验室按照设计和试验要求进行了细致充分的准备工作，并在试验正式开始前，做了多次40%载荷的预试。

此次试验共进行了100%、150%、200%三种载荷的加载。

试验期间，中航工业副总工程师杨伟亲临现场并坐镇指挥，巴基斯坦方面的专家、中航工业相关部门以及相关成员单位现场参与了整个试验。

WTF? Isn't it already in mass production? Why still in static stress tests?

---------- Post added at 10:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 AM ----------

It takes India decade to handle all the planes you mentioned. And China is already busy with J20. Adding to that, what will the danger be of Rafale or MKI? You gotta pass Himalaya and even then you need longer legs to go deep in China. Pakistan has a pact with China. If you attack Pakistan you attack China. I think that does protect Pakistan not only from India but also another major country killer.

That's not true. China will be like Uncle Sam, sitting back and sell weapon. They are friends, not brothers, doesn't worth going to war for.

---------- Post added at 10:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 AM ----------

The best thing for Pakistan to do is to buy/build hundreds of JF-17 and use it with AWACS planes. That is the cheapest and most effective way of doing it. J-10 is too expensive for pakistan to operate in large numbers. It even costs China too much to play with.

 

[Munir]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

You can say it differently. If China can afford to be alone then surely you are correct. With containing India... You have no longer local danger. With keeping Pakistan as friend you have shorter routes for products or resources and you keep Americans with more risks then when it is under Indian or US power. Besides that allies are not brothers. The relations can change but we have seen these two growing together more and more.