JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[i.e.]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

The question is whether China allows such close interaction with a foreign nation. Having numerous foreigners walking around in its military plane-design/engineering facilities and potentially exposing its top military secrets might be a issue with the Chinese...

Hehe, you are such old school.

Avic and its subsidiaries are teaming up with top notch western suppliers on nearly all if not all of its subsystems, on a whole host of projects (MA600, MA700, ARJ21, C919, etc etc) . Honeywell, Rockwell-Collins, Parker, Liberhiler, Moog, list goes on and on.
not only that, people from OEMs such as AB and Boeing and Bombardier are all over their contracting projects (empennage, doors, fueslage) all over AVIC facilities, most of which support some military contracts.

How do you think they interact each and every day?

 

[vesicles]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

Hehe, you are such old school.

Avic and its subsidiaries are teaming up with top notch western suppliers on nearly all if not all of its subsystems, on a whole host of projects (MA600, MA700, ARJ21, C919, etc etc) . Honeywell, Rockwell-Collins, Parker, Liberhiler, Moog, list goes on and on.
not only that, people from OEMs such as AB and Boeing and Bombardier are all over their contracting projects (empennage, doors, fueslage) all over AVIC facilities, most of which support some military contracts.

How do you think they interact each and every day?

Well, the situation with Israel is a little different. We all know that Israel cannot exist without the support of the West. So the West is a lot more confident that Israel will stay behind the West all the time (even with that, Israel still managed to sell some tech to China and pissed off the US to no end...). Pakistan, however, is a lot more independent and collaborate with both the West and China. Pakistan also politically drifts between China and the West all the time. So China is much more suspicious of Pakistan than the West for Israel. All it takes is a double-agent/expert from Pakistan to expose everything China is doing to the West. Isn't it what some fellow posters suggested China should do? Someone here suggested that China should send people to Pakistan to steal Western tech. Some people even suggested this is potentially how China got some of the more advanced tech... Why would the West not do the same if Pakistan collaborates with China so extensively?

 

[Schumacher]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

JF17 06 working on strike capabilities.

 

[Lion]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

Well, the situation with Israel is a little different. We all know that Israel cannot exist without the support of the West. So the West is a lot more confident that Israel will stay behind the West all the time (even with that, Israel still managed to sell some tech to China and pissed off the US to no end...). Pakistan, however, is a lot more independent and collaborate with both the West and China. Pakistan also politically drifts between China and the West all the time. So China is much more suspicious of Pakistan than the West for Israel. All it takes is a double-agent/expert from Pakistan to expose everything China is doing to the West. Isn't it what some fellow posters suggested China should do? Someone here suggested that China should send people to Pakistan to steal Western tech. Some people even suggested this is potentially how China got some of the more advanced tech... Why would the West not do the same if Pakistan collaborates with China so extensively?

Western is very wary of anything sold to Pakistan. Do you think PAF F-16 Blk 52 ,AIM-120 or P3C is something out of reach of China capabilities?

I bet J-10B is far more adavnced than Blk 52 even better than Blk 60 while China own P3C

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is under go testing... Chinese PL-12 to AIM-120..

So the anything the west sold to Pakistan is comparable in Chinese inventory or lower. They will not sell something out of extraordinary

With Pakistan having a all weather relationship with China. Chances of Pakistan leaking secret to west is much much lower.

 

[asif iqbal]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

Well, the situation with Israel is a little different. We all know that Israel cannot exist without the support of the West. So the West is a lot more confident that Israel will stay behind the West all the time (even with that, Israel still managed to sell some tech to China and pissed off the US to no end...). Pakistan, however, is a lot more independent and collaborate with both the West and China. Pakistan also politically drifts between China and the West all the time. So China is much more suspicious of Pakistan than the West for Israel. All it takes is a double-agent/expert from Pakistan to expose everything China is doing to the West. Isn't it what some fellow posters suggested China should do? Someone here suggested that China should send people to Pakistan to steal Western tech. Some people even suggested this is potentially how China got some of the more advanced tech... Why would the West not do the same if Pakistan collaborates with China so extensively?

vesicles ur post is grossly mis-guided

first, Israel gets weapons based on its politcal leverage, NOT because Western countrys "trust" Israel, infact many in the West do not want to give weapons to Israel, when US military cargo plane landed in December 2008 at Prestwick airport in Scotland to refuel, it was carrying 5,000 lb bunker busting bombs, Alex Salmond First Minister of Scotland clearly said that if Scotland was independent this would never happen and protesters from all over Scotland came to the airport to demonstrate

no govermennt supports Israel, but Israel has powerful lobbys which allow it to get weapons

second, "Pakistan also politically drifts between China and the West all the time" do you usually just give out personal baseless opinions or do you have any evidence to back up ur claims??

and finally Uncle Sam has and will sell advanced weapons to Pakistan, a prime example is the delivery of the 40 x F16 A/B Block 15 to PAF between 1983 and 1985, only the 2nd nation after Israel to get such a modern plane, even before Turkey

and sale of F86 Sabres and F104 Starfighters during 1960s, infact the weapons package for Pakistan before the outbreak of the 1965 war included F4 Phantoms, F5 Tigers and C130 Cargo planes, the reason Pakistan didnt get them was because they were used against India not because of the threat of secrets beings sold to China

and even today we got F16 C/D Block 52+ with a massive weapons package which includes Aim-120C and Aim-9L, the same as what Greece, Turkey and Poland operate

if PAF wanted F16 E/F Block 60 they would have asked, but they didnt, PAF requirment was for Block 52+

 

[Lion]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

vesicles ur post is grossly mis-guided

first, Israel gets weapons based on its politcal leverage, NOT because Western countrys "trust" Israel, infact many in the West do not want to give weapons to Israel, when US military cargo plane landed in December 2008 at Prestwick airport in Scotland to refuel, it was carrying 5,000 lb bunker busting bombs, Alex Salmond First Minister of Scotland clearly said that if Scotland was independent this would never happen and protesters from all over Scotland came to the airport to demonstrate

no govermennt supports Israel, but Israel has powerful lobbys which allow it to get weapons

second, "Pakistan also politically drifts between China and the West all the time" do you usually just give out personal baseless opinions or do you have any evidence to back up ur claims??

and finally Uncle Sam has and will sell advanced weapons to Pakistan, a prime example is the delivery of the 40 x F16 A/B Block 15 to PAF between 1983 and 1985, only the 2nd nation after Israel to get such a modern plane, even before Turkey

and sale of F86 Sabres and F104 Starfighters during 1960s, infact the weapons package for Pakistan before the outbreak of the 1965 war included F4 Phantoms, F5 Tigers and C130 Cargo planes, the reason Pakistan didnt get them was because they were used against India not because of the threat of secrets beings sold to China

and even today we got F16 C/D Block 52+ with a massive weapons package which includes Aim-120C and Aim-9L, the same as what Greece, Turkey and Poland operate

if PAF wanted F16 E/F Block 60 they would have asked, but they didnt, PAF requirment was for Block 52+

PAF gets F-16A/B during the 80s is because of the anti-soviet campaign Pakistan participated during afgan war plus China is friendly towards US during that period too and China is far too technolgy backward in the 80s to RE any advance American stuff.

NOw is totally a different times, If PAF is interested in F-35, P-8 Poisedon and AIM-120D and even has the money. I am 100% sure, USA will reject that idea.

As I say, F-16 blk 52 or even Blk 60 are not something beyond what China is capable to produced. There is not much value for China to RE. Same as the AIM-120C and P3C Orion. China has all the similiar or better in our inventory.

 

[Dizasta1]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

Well, the situation with Israel is a little different. We all know that Israel cannot exist without the support of the West. So the West is a lot more confident that Israel will stay behind the West all the time (even with that, Israel still managed to sell some tech to China and pissed off the US to no end...).

From what I have read in your post, I can say for certain, that you do not know the extent of leverage Israel has in the west. The most powerful and filthy rich lobbies, are the ones which advocate for Israel in the west. So to say that Israel exists on the support of the west, is a gross misrepresented and inaccurate. When Israel cancelled China's AWACS program, on pressure from the United States, what a lot of people failed to notice was the design layouts, schematics and technical literature, was never retrieved from China.

Israel's influence extends beyond the west, where it actively bribed the Russians in not selling Iran the S-300 Surface-to-Air Missile defense systems. In fact, Russia restrained from selling the S-300s to Iran, once Israel agreed to sell Russia, it's most advance UAV systems in exchange.

Pakistan, however, is a lot more independent and collaborate with both the West and China. Pakistan also politically drifts between China and the West all the time. So China is much more suspicious of Pakistan than the West for Israel. All it takes is a double-agent/expert from Pakistan to expose everything China is doing to the West. Isn't it what some fellow posters suggested China should do? Someone here suggested that China should send people to Pakistan to steal Western tech. Some people even suggested this is potentially how China got some of the more advanced tech... Why would the West not do the same if Pakistan collaborates with China so extensively?

The only thing in Pakistan, that China wouldn't trust, is the same thing which Pakistanis themselves don't trust either. And that is the utterly corrupt, decadent and traitorous government of Zardari.

China's military has a very close and cooperative relationship with Pakistan's military. It is in this realm, the military-to-military one, that China and Pakistan's relationship has developed into a strong and robust alliance. One only waits for when true, loyal and patriotic Pakistanis to over the leadership of Pakistan. That is when people-to-people, business-to-business and government-to-government ties will flourish between the Pakistanis and Chinese.

 

[SteelBird]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

Just read the news in Khmer language that there were two fighters jet collision when taking off which led to at least one pilot dead. The accident happened on the 17 May, 10:20am. Though it did not confirm the type of the aircraft but photos of the wreckage suggest that it was the JF-17.

Can anyone find more info on this?

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[Zahid]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

Those were single-engined propeller driven training aircraft. Most unfortunate that this happened.

 

[Quickie]

Re: Test Flaws Postpone JF-17

But the pictures at the link show a wreckage with what looks
like jet nozzle.