Blackstone
Brigadier
Who's the second export customer? A new article mentioned Sir Lanka as a possibility and not a certainty.
JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread
- Thread starter johnqh
- Start date
Blackstone
Brigadier
Zahid
Junior Member
One Word - Electronics.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Actually, the word you want is 'free' instead.
Since Uncle Sam will ultimately be paying for those F16s out of its military assistant funds to Pakistan.Pakistan is just negotiating on what to spend that free money on.
Barack Obama proposes over $1 billion civil, military aid to Pakistan
PTIFeb 3, 2015, 07.04PM IST
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(US President Barack Obama…)
WASHINGTON: President has proposed over USD 1 billion in civilian and military aid to "strategically important" for fighting terror, economic development, safety of nuclear installations and improving ties with among other objectives.
The budgetary proposals released by the State Department after Obama sent them to the Congress show a more than six- fold increase in the foreign military financing (FMF) to Pakistan from USD 42.2 million in 2014 to USD 265 million in 2016...
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Ultra
Junior Member
Plawolf is correct -
US has been giving Pakistan "military aid" ever since US's 2001 Afganistan invasion (Pakistan started to receive the military aid from 2002 onwards every year) - you can chalk it up to Pervez Musharraf's good negotiation skill in exchange for Pakistan's help on "War on Terror".
Basically every year Pakistan gets roughly $1.2 Billion worth of military hardware from USA.....
....FOR FREE. So of course Pakistan is going to make use of it, its basically free lunch using coupon!
Getting some F-16 would be nice, I think the latest F-16V which Taiwan is getting is nice, but what Pakistan really need are medium to heavy fighters such as F-15 or F/A-18 (to counter India's Su-30 MKI) - particularly, EA-18G is badly needed for PAF as electronic attack would greatly boost Pakistani's air defence against India. But both of these top end fighters US only sell it to their closest allies or their very very rich clients such as Saudi Arabia. It is very unlikely US will give Pakistan F15 or F-18 for free and even less likely EF-18 for that matter.
US has been giving Pakistan "military aid" ever since US's 2001 Afganistan invasion (Pakistan started to receive the military aid from 2002 onwards every year) - you can chalk it up to Pervez Musharraf's good negotiation skill in exchange for Pakistan's help on "War on Terror".
Basically every year Pakistan gets roughly $1.2 Billion worth of military hardware from USA.....
....FOR FREE. So of course Pakistan is going to make use of it, its basically free lunch using coupon!
Getting some F-16 would be nice, I think the latest F-16V which Taiwan is getting is nice, but what Pakistan really need are medium to heavy fighters such as F-15 or F/A-18 (to counter India's Su-30 MKI) - particularly, EA-18G is badly needed for PAF as electronic attack would greatly boost Pakistani's air defence against India. But both of these top end fighters US only sell it to their closest allies or their very very rich clients such as Saudi Arabia. It is very unlikely US will give Pakistan F15 or F-18 for free and even less likely EF-18 for that matter.
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Plawolf is correct -
US has been giving Pakistan "military aid" ever since US's 2001 Afganistan invasion (Pakistan started to receive the military aid from 2002 onwards every year) - you can chalk it up to Pervez Musharraf's good negotiation skill in exchange for Pakistan's help on "War on Terror".
Basically every year Pakistan gets roughly $1.2 Billion worth of military hardware from USA.....
....FOR FREE. So of course Pakistan is going to make use of it, its basically free lunch using coupon!
Getting some F-16 would be nice, I think the latest F-16V which Taiwan is getting is nice, but what Pakistan really need are medium to heavy fighters such as F-15 or F/A-18 (to counter India's Su-30 MKI) - particularly, EA-18G is badly needed for PAF as electronic attack would greatly boost Pakistani's air defence against India. But both of these top end fighters US only sell it to their closest allies or their very very rich clients such as Saudi Arabia. It is very unlikely US will give Pakistan F15 or F-18 for free and even less likely EF-18 for that matter.
I dont want to be blunt. But wasnt it better if you have had done research before blindly posting Pakistan getting F-16 for free ? I would get if Indians say this, because when it comes to Pakistan, there senses become dull and would post without thorough research but PLAwolf you are a respected member.
Pakistan paid for 18 block 52, around 50 MLU kits for F-16 from its own kitty. It was a 5 billion deal and I'm sure if you contact american authorities, they will tell you exactly the same thing. Then Pakistan bought 10-12 F-16 from Jordan and Paid the money from its own kitty once again.
Do you know how much F-16 cost ? Person who put 1 billion aid link should know you can only buy 3-4 F-16 in those and Pakistan is currently seeking 8-12 F-16 advance versions.
So the question remains, where the military aid goes to? It goes to upgrading infantry, Specia units of Pakistan army fighting war on terror. The military aid enabled around 40-50 K units to upgrade their kits, Had MAx Pro Armour cars, Individuals modular items.
Last but not the least, Dont mix Aid with the Money America paid to pakistan for using Pakistani infrastruture to transport its logistics.
Zahid
Junior Member
Yes that too. However, there are many competing demands and F-16 is just one of them. The priority that they get is because of the electronics on board Block-52 birds. They have no match in South Asia til now. Rafales in IAF may change that. But PAF's love for F-16 is no secret.
JF-17 has its own place and there should be no doubt about its utlilty for PAF.
Ultra
Junior Member
Page 297
........."Pakistan was the 13th largest recipient (2per cent) of US transfers in the
period 2003–2007. Pakistan’s share of US transfers is likely to increase
significantly in the future, as the USA agreed in 2006 to provide 26 F-16
combat aircraft (second-hand, but modernized to F-16C standards) and
20 AH-1F combat helicopters as military aid."
Since 2005, the USAF had transferred fourteen Excess Defense Article (EDA) F-16A/B aircraft to Pakistan. The United States Air Force (USAF) successfully delivered four excess defense article (EDA) F-16B aircraft to the Pakistan Air Force at Mushaf Air Base in Pakistan on June 28, 2008. Five USAF pilots ferried the aircraft from Hill Air Force Base. The four EDA aircraft are part of a larger package of 14 aircraft. With this delivery, the USAF had transferred eight aircraft to Pakistan. Another four EDA F-16 aircraft arrived in Pakistan on 28 July 2008. The final two aircraft are part of the Pakistan Mid-Life Update program and would arrive in Pakistan in December 2011.
Page 297
........."Pakistan was the 13th largest recipient (2per cent) of US transfers in the
period 2003–2007. Pakistan’s share of US transfers is likely to increase
significantly in the future, as the USA agreed in 2006 to provide 26 F-16
combat aircraft (second-hand, but modernized to F-16C standards) and
20 AH-1F combat helicopters as military aid."
Since 2005, the USAF had transferred fourteen Excess Defense Article (EDA) F-16A/B aircraft to Pakistan. The United States Air Force (USAF) successfully delivered four excess defense article (EDA) F-16B aircraft to the Pakistan Air Force at Mushaf Air Base in Pakistan on June 28, 2008. Five USAF pilots ferried the aircraft from Hill Air Force Base. The four EDA aircraft are part of a larger package of 14 aircraft. With this delivery, the USAF had transferred eight aircraft to Pakistan. Another four EDA F-16 aircraft arrived in Pakistan on 28 July 2008. The final two aircraft are part of the Pakistan Mid-Life Update program and would arrive in Pakistan in December 2011.
These 26 aircraft you are mentioning as military aid. These were those 26 aircrafts US refused to handover to us in 90's because of the Pressler amendment. We paid for these F-16 back in 90's. Sipri is not a word of GOD. They can make mistakes too.
Forty F-16 fighters were first introduced to Pakistan’s Air Force (PAF) in the 1980s. However, due to the 1985 Pressler Amendment, the United States cancelled the sale of an additional 28 F-16s in 1990 and imposed sanctions on Pakistan because of its burgeoning nuclear weapons program.
In 2006, a contract was signed between the United States and Pakistan over the purchase of 18 new F-16C/D block 50/52 aircraft with an option for another 18 more. The first three F-16C/Ds were in June 2010 with the rest inducted into the PAF by the end of 2012. That same year, the United States 14 used F-16s to the PAF.
This brings us back to the F-16s debacle. When the Pressler sanctions came into force, Pakistan was precluded from taking possession of 28 F-16s for which it had made payments until 1993, some three years after the sanctions commenced. for the planes, and some reports suggest that Pakistan continued making payments based on Pentagon assurances that continued payments would ensure eventual delivery.
Pakistan did not get the planes and was assessed storage and maintenance costs of $50,000 per month for the planes that sat, becoming ever more obsolete, in the Arizona desert. This account is telling: Pakistan preferred to heed the roseate advice of the Pentagon over the clear lines of U.S. law.
Under threat of a Pakistani lawsuit, U.S. in late 1998. Pakistan received $464 million, mostly in cash, which was the remaining amount of the claim. Clinton also agreed to send Pakistan an additional $60 million worth of wheat. (New Zealand ultimately purchased the F-16s on a 10-year lease-purchase deal that totaled $105 million.)
Long before President George W. Bush promised to resume sales to Pakistan in as a good faith effort to restore confidence in the United States, the F-16 issue had been resolved.
MastanKhan
Junior Member
Hi,
Isn't it all about integration---. The F16 has been flying in pakistan colors for 30 plus years----it is a fully integrated aircaft in te pak air force----.
The JF 17 is just barely starting---the BLK1 had different electronics than BLK2---all BLK1's are being switched to BLK2 electronics----it will take another 3 to 5 years to fullyu integrate this package and the pilots upto date----then the next change is coming in the BLK3 in a years time---that is when it will get aesa and other goodies----so you have a new game plan and training coming up and newer integration woes----.
And that is why when I commented on the J10 thread about integration---about J10A---then J10B---and then J10C----in such short time---and that was a concern about how the pilots could catch on so fast----most senior posters brushed it aside----.
So---if there are any air force personal here---lwho can discuss about the integration of a new fighter aircraft---the growing pains---the failures and successes and the time factor---somewhere on the air force section---.