J-XX Fighter Aircraft

Re: J-xx

zyun8288 said:

Anyone else wants to comment? Or put your bet down?

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My bet:

FC-1:
developed in blocks (perhaps 2 more blocks), progressively(and incrementall) stealthier
FC-X internal carriage of two bvrs only.

J-10:
One more version, perhaps a "super" j-10, incrementally stealthier with DSI

Chengdu stealth project:
delta canard along the lines of the J-10, internal weapons carriage.

Shenyang stealth project:
conventional lay out, along the lines of the F-22.

by the way, how much are we betting on? :coffee:

Re: J-xx

Two Stealth projects for the J-XX series makes sense for two reasons.

1. Provides a redundancy in case one project fails, and

2. Most importantly because there can be two very different roles a la F-22 and F-35

A Stealthy J-10 (single engine with two internal bomb bays) - conceptually a F-35A, close air support, secondary fighter - with a two engine design as a redundancy for ...

A Stealthy derivative of the J-11 with threee bomb bays a la F-22, an Air Supremacy and surgical strike aircraft.

The quickest way to achieve this (if time is of the essense which I believe it is) would be through adopting the Su-47 model, with all the benefits that this design brings.

Re: J-xx

I think the roles break down differently. The Chengdu stealth fighter will be a pure air superiority fighter. It will be light. The Shenyang stealth fighter will be heavier and longer range, and also stealthier, more expensive and fewer in number.

In other words, the CAC aircraft is designed for defending airspace against F-22, the SAC aircraft is designed to perform the same role as F-22.

It's also a matter of timing. A 5th generation fighter is needed as soon as possible so I think the Chengdu stealth fighter may enter service as early as 2010. Once you have that, the Shenyang aircraft is not as pressing.

I seriously doubt they would go for a forward swept wing design. The Russians abandoned this route for a good reason.

Re: J-xx

You could well be correct - it is difficult to know Chinese defence thinking, however..

With the US it is the F-22 Air Dominace aircraft that is the more capable and expensive (and heavier and longer ranged), and the lighter, single engined F-35 Close air support aircraft (which is also analgous to the F-15/F-16 mix) which is not their primacy air supremacy aircraft.

For an aircraft to defend against the F-22 (and this is a fundamental disagreement I have with the discussion on Chinese military developments), the PLAAF will need a big aircraft with a very capable look down radar.

I think it is important to bear in mind that even the US Air Force doesn't argue that the Flanker will be more manoeuvrable than an F-22. Their reply is that it doesn't matter and that is not what the F-22 was designed for! It was designed to kill the enemy b efore they even knew they were there. In their words "it's not meant to be a fair fight!"

For the record I agree with their thinking!


Also, why does the PLAAF need a fifth generation fighter as soon as possible?

And what were the goods reasons why the Russians abonded forward swept wings?

Not disagreeing with you here - just don't know what they were??

Re: J-xx

Subetei said:

Also, why does the PLAAF need a fifth generation fighter as soon as possible?

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The US has deployed F-22s to Japan, and if a crises develops in the Taiwan Straight, those F-22's would be disastrous for PLAAF.

Though I don't think its feasible to develop a proper counter to the F-22 so fast.

Re: J-xx

Plenty of rich targets out there that the F-22s can't protect. Besides, having them fly around close to the enemy... one can learn a lot of information. That's why you don't see them fly anywhere close to someone who can exploit that information. Which is also why the US is not so quick to sell them to even an ally.

Re: J-xx

My question is why would they go the extra distance to incorporate that same basic shape of the aircraft into the demo cockpit display in that exhibition. Unless my memory fails me, they looked similar. If we can confirm the shapes or the outlines are indeed the same, then we can be sure that something concrete is really going on. Unfortunately I did not save the pictures. To refresh, I am referring to the picture showing the front end of the aircraft.

Re: J-xx

Leave aside the future JXX issue, I want a clear answer about the FC1's number as of NOW: Apart from the 6 prototypes, 4 pre-production ones that are suposed to be delivered this year (2 delivered in April before Pakistan's national day parade), CAN any one tell me where are the other flying FC1s, because not all of the 10 existing ones can fly (2 static testbeds, 2 pre-production ones that are still doing ground testings)

With these 10 (less than 8 flyable) FC1s, I don't call it ready.

Re: J-xx

BTW, If CAC's stealth plane enters service in 2010, I will definitely say that I am sorry to Roger604 on all the forums that I take part in, here and CDF. I will be very glad to do that.

Re: J-xx

zyun8288 said:

Apart from the 6 prototypes, 4 pre-production ones that are suposed to be delivered this year (2 delivered in April before Pakistan's national day parade), CAN any one tell me where are the other flying FC1s, because not all of the 10 existing ones can fly (2 static testbeds, 2 pre-production ones that are still doing ground testings)

With these 10 (less than 8 flyable) FC1s, I don't call it ready.

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I agree. FC-1 is in the prototype stage and has to probably undergo a few hundred more flight tests to get IOC. This is because after exactly 500 tests conducted within 3 years, only trainers like are certified. I have discussed this very issue at PDF, but Pakistanis (even professionals) at most forums believe that the FC-1 is complete and ready for induction any time next year.

Far from induction, it is unlikely to even begin production by late 2009 at the earliest.

I do not know the benchmark for FC-1 in China, but the number of mandatory test-flight hours for LCA that are needed for it to get Initial certification is 1000, which are to be executed by 7 prototypes (6 already flying).