J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread VIII

[kentchang]

Sounds like complete BS to me. There's 10 000s of ppl involved in the whole supply chain likely. Working on J-20 doesn't confer an immunity to stroke, cancer or heart disease. ~2 people over 10 years in a company family of many 1000s passing away is just normal human condition. And a lot of very smart people are not that smart when it comes to taking care of their health.

Does western propaganda think J-20 factories are like ww2 nazi Jewish staffed munition plants? Be real. Nobody either the design or workshop side works on a J-20 for longer than they feel like they want/can get scheduled for.

Reminds me of the spate of suicides in Shenzhen Foxconn dorms years ago. As it turned out, the city-wide suicide rate was higher.

 

[Index]

I don't see how that sounds like complete BS.

Death due to overwork (or death due to illness caused by overwork) is far from being breaking news, more so in East Asian societies. And this isn't actually the first time where death from overwork (or death due to illness from overwork) has happened in the Chinese MIC, albeit being somewhat seldom/rare in occurence compared to other fields/industries.

Yankee & Co. brought that up mainly as one of the representations/indications on how "at capacity" Chengdu AC currently is with regards to J-20 production - Such that the PLAAF deems the procurement of J-35A absolutely necessary to push up China's 5th-gen fleet size as quickly as possible (and that Shenyang AC does have some degree of spare capacities to help out).

Also, do people here in this forum just go blazing "Western propaganda" whenever any discouraging/bad/negative news comes out of China? Really?

No, I don't think that. However I don't consider that if someone has less than ideal living habits and/or just dies from normal causes while also being a project member as "death from overwork" as this sounds like a very extreme term.

I'd bet good money on that quite a few more F-35 team members passed during work, what with the much higher rate of poor health across the pond compared to us. They will never say that those deaths were due to overwork, so why should we?

We should strive to use a consistent terminology, that's all. What I meant regarding propaganda is that the hallmark of the propagandist is to distort terminologies.

 

[latenlazy]

I don't see how that sounds like complete BS.

Death due to overwork (or death due to illness caused by overwork) is far from being breaking news, more so in East Asian societies. And this isn't actually the first time where death from overwork (or death due to illness from overwork) has happened in the Chinese MIC, albeit being somewhat seldom/rare in occurence compared to other fields/industries.

Yankee & Co. brought that up mainly as one of the representations/indications on how "at capacity" Chengdu AC currently is with regards to J-20 production - Such that the PLAAF deems the procurement of J-35A absolutely necessary to push up China's 5th-gen fleet size as quickly as possible (and that Shenyang AC does have some degree of spare capacities to help out).

Also, do people here in this forum just go blazing "Western propaganda" whenever any discouraging/bad/negative news comes out of China? Really?

Some people love owning America more than they love China

 

[totenchan]

No, I don't think that. However I don't consider that if someone has less than ideal living habits and/or just dies from normal causes while also being a project member as "death from overwork" as this sounds like a very extreme term.

I'd bet good money on that quite a few more F-35 team members passed during work, what with the much higher rate of poor health across the pond compared to us. They will never say that those deaths were due to overwork, so why should we?

We should strive to use a consistent terminology, that's all. What I meant regarding propaganda is that the hallmark of the propagandist is to distort terminologies.

Are we calling Yankee and co foreign propagandists now?

 

[Index]

Are we calling Yankee and co foreign propagandists now?

Consider re-reading the comment you quoted to see what I said~

 

[SanWenYu]

A fanboy made his own placard and put on a table, took a photo then say it is from the show.

Yep. “引擎类型” gives away.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

No, I don't think that. However I don't consider that if someone has less than ideal living habits and/or just dies from normal causes while also being a project member as "death from overwork" as this sounds like a very extreme term.

I'd bet good money on that quite a few more F-35 team members passed during work, what with the much higher rate of poor health across the pond compared to us. They will never say that those deaths were due to overwork, so why should we?

We should strive to use a consistent terminology, that's all. What I meant regarding propaganda is that the hallmark of the propagandist is to distort terminologies.

I don't give a cr4p about F-35 because we're talking about J-20 here, not F-35. Why are you so insistent about bringing F-35 into the discussion?

The facts are:
- There are workers who passed away at their workplaces at Chengdu AC (Yankee & Co. even used the phrase "有同志在工作岗位牺牲");
- Chengdu AC has pretty much reached their celling with regards to J-20 production at present; and
- The PLAAF deems necessary to bring J-35A into active service to meet the PLAAF's demand for 5th-gens as soon as possible (whlist also somewhat helping out Chengdu AC).

Which one of these is so hard for you to process and understand? Because I didn't see any. Unless your purpose is just to 鸡蛋里挑骨头 (picking bones from an egg) because of just how you feel something should or shouldn't be like, then I believe there's nothing to discuss here.

 

[Miyayaya]

No, I don't think that. However I don't consider that if someone has less than ideal living habits and/or just dies from normal causes while also being a project member as "death from overwork" as this sounds like a very extreme term.

I'd bet good money on that quite a few more F-35 team members passed during work, what with the much higher rate of poor health across the pond compared to us. They will never say that those deaths were due to overwork, so why should we?

We should strive to use a consistent terminology, that's all. What I meant regarding propaganda is that the hallmark of the propagandist is to distort terminologies.

Karoshi in the US is like an order of magnitude lower than that of China, maybe a couple order of magnitudes lower in a sector like MIC.

Interestingly it's actually a Japanese term. But it's a real term, and it's more relevant to parts of Asia than EU/US, which would explain why it's not used.

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[Blitzo]

I don't give a cr4p about F-35 because we're talking about J-20 here, not F-35. Why are you so insistent about bringing F-35 into the discussion?

The facts are:
- There are workers who passed away at their workplaces at Chengdu AC (Yankee & Co. even used the phrase "有同志在工作岗位牺牲");
- Chengdu AC has pretty much reached their celling with regards to J-20 production at present; and
- The PLAAF deems necessary to bring J-35A into active service to meet the PLAAF's need as soon as possible (whlist also helping with Chengdu AC).

Which one of these is so hard for you to process and understand? Because I didn't see any. Unless your purpose is just to 鸡蛋里挑骨头 (picking bones from an egg) because of just how you feel something should or shouldn't be like, then I believe there's nothing to discuss here.

I think the idea of increasing aircraft production facilities and either in terms of more floorspace, more personnel or giving work to SAC (per J-35A) are all very reasonable, and personnel demand/stress may well be one factor.

Putting my doctoring hat on, I do think that "dying from overwork" is a bit of an simplistic because "overwork" isn't a great risk factor by itself let alone a diagnosis. It is useful as a byline to argue for why reducing overall workload may be useful, but without knowing the specifics of individual's existing risk factors, cause of death, etc, I think it's reasonable to say that the phrase itself is a bit loaded.

 

[minime]

Such that the PLAAF deems the procurement of J-35A absolutely necessary to push up China's 5th-gen fleet size as quickly as possible (and that Shenyang AC does have some degree of spare capacities to help out).

I don't buy the push up 5th-gen fleet size as quickly as possible thing.
If that's the case, why PLAAF decided to get serious about J-35 only after the naval commitment?