J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[Engineer]

read what i said, ITR is the max lift coefficient...

Nope. ITR measure in degrees per second. Lift coefficient is dimensionless. They are not the same thing.

This statement of yours is down there in desperateness next to your proclamation made six years ago that says intersecting planes are parallel.

...thus the highest turn rate it will achieve, as it says no aircraft can keep it up, it is for a few seconds, STR is the turn rate the jet can sustain or keep it as it slows down, and bleed speed, thus thrust will reduce the rate it bleeds energy.

to increase lift either you improve the lift drag ratio or you lighten up the aircraft.

J-20 to being called on par to what other nation have, needs engines in the 15000 or 17000 kg of thrust class.

you can think it is very light, but i do not think it is lighter than 18900 kg at operational empty weight, it very likely weighs between 28000 to 29000 kg at combat weight and a 36000 to 39000 max take off.

Wrong! Clueless as usual. If engine thrust is all that matter, engineers would have just strapped a saddle (for the pilot) on an engine instead of spending all their time tweaking the aerodynamics.

The iso-contours in the chart below show the STR for A-4J and A-4M. At first glance, it immediately shows STR to be far more complicated than a matter of engine thrust.

J52-P-408 (red) on A-4M can produce a maximum of 50 kN. The GE-J79-10 (blue) on A-4J can produce a maximum of 79 kN. Your claim says A-4J has higher STR which is not wrong, yet in most of the flight envelop, A-4M is the one that has higher STR.

 

[Engineer]

how much lift do you need to lift 400 tonnes from the ground? i am sure those wing create so much lift, to lift 14 fully loaded J-20 above the ground, but of course you need your minute of fame

You claimed the amount of condensation indicates agility. I proved your claim to be ridiculous and wrong. Case closed.

 

[Twix101]

Wing condensation cloud is a good indicator of high angle of attack, nothing else.

 

[vesicles]

it is for me a bit of propaganda, when i see the vortex system it generates and the steam it has above the wings i see a very week system, same was its flight demonstration in 2016, i did not see any thing impressive



look at these aircraft and the steam they generate, i will show you fighters known for being really agile a compare with J-20, i could be wrong but at least up to now nothing impressive in flight demonstration or vortex system pictures

F-22

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fully covered by vapor during tight turn not visible top view

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Su-57

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fully covered like F-22

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you could say it is the weather but up to now no impressive flight demostrations

here is an explanation why vapor is formed above wings

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You have no info on what these planes were actually doing at the moment of the photo-taking. How fast were they going? What kind of G's were they pulling? etc. etc. etc.

How can you make any comparisons based on these photos?

 

[vesicles]

how much lift do you need to lift 400 tonnes from the ground? i am sure those wing create so much lift, to lift 14 fully loaded J-20 above the ground, but of course you need your minute of fame

I thought you were specifically comparing agility, not total lift, as your post specifically says...

it is for me a bit of propaganda, when i see the vortex system it generates and the steam it has above the wings i see a very week system, same was its flight demonstration in 2016, i did not see any thing impressive



look at these aircraft and the steam they generate, i will show you fighters known for being really agile a compare with J-20, i could be wrong but at least up to now nothing impressive in flight demonstration or vortex system pictures......

 

[b787]

You have no info on what these planes were actually doing at the moment of the photo-taking. How fast were they going? What kind of G's were they pulling? etc. etc. etc.

How can you make any comparisons based on these photos?

in both types, they are at high angle of attack, the airliners at landing at low speeds; the fighters at tight turns.
this means at their max lift.

tighter the turn, higher G.

the pictures of J-20 are not showing the jet doing its best agility, at least publicly, they show very mild maneuvers, why? i do not know, but for sure they are not really showing what confident pilots and companies do to show a very agile dog fighters, thus the vapor above wing is not covering the top fuselage as in other aircraft.

 

[Richard Santos]

Wing condensation cloud is a good indicator of high angle of attack, nothing else.

Condesaton indicates just two things, neither of which is either angle of attack, or agility. These two things are:

1. There is humidity in the air.

2. There is pressure reduction sufficient to over saturate the air no cause the humidity to condense into droplet.

When the air temperature is high and the air is nearly saturated (hot and humid), a trivial reduction in pressure, such as over the wings of a commercial airliner hauling down the runway, suffices to create condensation. You frequently see that in airports in the tropics. That b737 accelerating down the runway before rotation is neither pulling Gs nor exhibitING high angles of attack.

In very dry air, like over the altacama desert, the most agile aircraft blessed with the highest thrust to weight ratio can roll and pull Gs until its wings come off and there would not be a wiff of condensation.

To know what condensation may signify for a maneuvering airplane, you need to know the difference between the embient pressure and temperature, and the pressure at which the air becomes supersaturated. Without knowing how humid the air, what the pressure is, and what the embiant temperature is, the photogenic presence of condensation evokes a lot in the minds of wishful enthusiasts but tells the thinking observer absolutely nothing.

 

[b787]

Wind condensation indicates just two things:

1. There is humidity in the air.

2. There is pressure reduction that causes the humidity to condense into droplet.

When the air is nearly saturated, a trivial reduction in pressure, such as over the wings of a plane in normal flight, suffices to create condensation.

Without knowing how humid the air is and what the embiant temperature is, the photogenic presence of condensation tells you nothing.

except if you look an aircraft doing tight turn such as this

squeezing the moisture out of the air into a high G maneuver, well the narrator of this video gives me the reason

 

[Richard Santos]

except if you look an aircraft doing tight turn such as this

squeezing the moisture out of the air into a high G maneuver, well the narrator of this video gives me the reason

Big deal. Nothing here tells you how tight that turn was, how fast the plane was going on the way in, nor how much speed the plane lost in the process.

 

[Equation]

it is for me a bit of propaganda, when i see the vortex system it generates and the steam it has above the wings i see a very week system, same was its flight demonstration in 2016, i did not see any thing impressive



look at these aircraft and the steam they generate, i will show you fighters known for being really agile a compare with J-20, i could be wrong but at least up to now nothing impressive in flight demonstration or vortex system pictures

F-22

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fully covered by vapor during tight turn not visible top view

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Su-57

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fully covered like F-22

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you could say it is the weather but up to now no impressive flight demostrations

here is an explanation why vapor is formed above wings

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A lot of "steam" and vortex coming out of this T-50. This too is a weak system according to your logic.