J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[Air Force Brat]

That is very true.

We should also remember that it is wrong to respond "wide range of information" with complete rejection is very wrong??? Wide range information is just that, wide range, some are right, some are BS. Calling everything wrong itself is wrong.

You're right, all Mr. Forbin is intending to say( English is not his first language), is that for instance with the J-20, we had a great deal of information initially under Peng, but when Xi took over as "Emporer", the "great wall of secrecy" went up again!

So while France, England, US, and others post lots and lots of information on say the F-22??? (anybody who cares to, can educate himself on many of the finer details of the Raptor), the same is not true of the J-20.... even Chinese posters are often in the dark about the J-20, for instance there was and continues to be a long running argument about which Russian engine?? or whether or not individual birds were powered by one or more WS-10s.

So IMHO it is often just as easy, if not easier for Westerners to get more accurate detailed information on the J-20 than Chinese posters. Westerners have more access to everybody's information, and are able to make more accurate comparisons, because unless something is "classified as TOP SECRET" we have lots of access. Here again, that is my "honest opinion"

but I certainly agree that there is information in Chinese that I will likely never understand, as I'm not terribly motivated to try to learn a new language at my age???
The reason I do try to listen, and learn, and ask respectful questions??? I love the J-20, Airframe in particular! (I am AirFrame on F-16.Net), but I'm very seldom on there, because the SDF is really where my heart is??

oh, and if you had been here Saturday night, I'm rather certain you would have enjoyed my "Pork Fried Rice", it went fast! and I would have loved to have your opinion, and to have had you as a guest at my table!

as a footnote, we are currently wondering how many LRIP birds have first flighted and are in flight test???

 

[weig2000]

Gents, let's not equate knowing Chinese to Chinese defense matters expert. I know nobody here makes that assumption explicitly, but there appears to be some implicit assumption that being the case, at least subconsciously. You still need critical thinking, special knowledge, and indeed, diligence.

It helps, especially since a lot of relevant information are dispersed in many places and sometimes you will need to synthesize them. To do that, it helps to have some contextual information. China does not typically publishes detailed weapon information on MOND website, translated into English, say.

Let's also not equate Chinese BBS as sources of genuine information. They're mostly rumors, individual analysis/wishful thinking, second-hand information, noises, just like majority of the internet boards. Occasionally, there are insights and insiders' information. But they're the exceptions, rather than the rules.

Government reports, official news reports, research institutes, suppliers' website, and academic publications, these generally provide real and authoritative information. But you'll need some knowledge in order to process and understand more completely.

One example: blogger

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is well respected in the Chinese internet community for his analysis and insight into Chinese strategic defense programs, particularly various missile programs. All of his information are from the public sources. He was the first one to reveal and give very detailed analysis of China's ASBM program, well before most people had even heard about the program. His analysis was widely cited by international defense community early on. I was often amazed at seeing him pulling together some seemingly boring official news, reports, papers to give a clear and illuminating analysis of an underlying program.

But let's be clear: China is not competing with the US or for that matter, France, on who can publish more military information or who is the most transparent in these matters. The Chinese government is not there to make you happy by making it so easy for you to collect these information either for fun or for intelligence gathering. In fact, sometimes it's in China's interest to make it difficult. Imagine if the US knew that China was at a very advanced stage in developing its 5th generation fighter aircraft before 2010, would the US still stop producing F-22 and shut down the production line?

So lets' stop whining.

 

[Blitzo]

Gents, let's not equate knowing Chinese to Chinese defense matters expert. I know nobody here makes that assumption explicitly, but there appears to be some implicit assumption that being the case, at least subconsciously. You still need critical thinking, special knowledge, and indeed, diligence.

I don't think anyone has been saying it's as simple as that -- obviously having common sense, experience, logic, and some background in understanding defence matters in general is important in addition to having some experience with the Chinese language to provide a more informed understanding of Chinese military matters.

I'm not really sure what Forbin was originally meaning with "talk more Chinese" but it did lead to everyone raising the very salient point that having an understanding of the Chinese language definitely makes PLA watching a hell of a lot easier than without.

 

[Blitzo]

for deino
seems legit?

 

[kriss]

for deino
seems legit?

Seems Christmas is early.

 

[Hyperwarp]

for deino
seems legit?
***

78271? Does that mean this is sample No. 21?

 

[Deino]

for deino
seems legit?

Indeed ... And The number tells me The First unit is The 176. Brigade FTTC.

 

[Deino]

Indeed ... And The number tells me The First unit is The 176. Brigade FTTC.

PS:

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If the 176th Brigade follows the 175. Brigade it will indeed we assigned to the CFTE Dingxin/14th Air Base, which would fit. The other units at Cangzhou are the 171th and 172th Brigades + the well known 170th Air Brigade at Jiugucheng.

Deino

 

[FORBIN]

You're right, all Mr. Forbin is intending to say( English is not his first language), is that for instance with the J-20, we had a great deal of information initially under Peng, but when Xi took over as "Emporer", the "great wall of secrecy" went up again!

He not right understand only a part and mainly some word seems muxh disturb him ( with some others always the same... ) for some reasons...

In more my post not agressive, only a bit franckly and i put th smiley and reaction get disproportionned, stupids ! as usually !!! but i don' t do I do not do anything wrong and I only tell the truth without aggressiveness my post is correct in the rules after some are happy or unhappy it is not my problem.

It is very clear the Chinese is not the problem but goverment, officials, policy are, OPACITY.

1/ Vey few infos with China in more for the 2nd Army in the world !!!
2/ In any language even in Chinese sometimes a little more but on very rare posts on forums and some blogs i have search and i know.
We see especially as Deino have problems.
3/ Majority of experts/reliable observers are Western and understand in part the Chines don' t speak or so few
- Deino
- Henri K
- Franco Russe definitely one or the best specialist for Orbats for China ofc he had a little lexicon to to understand the essential, we exchanges infos ... saddly he left and very damage !
- i found reliable infos in French special. mag exist one personn aware about it

And mainly i have all or almost on Russian Army and i don' t speack Russian... and even before internet les difficult for have ofc i have alway majority of infos from around 40 years...end of the discussion.

Others Asian languages are difficult esp. Japanese but DOD provide all in 2 languages.

 

[vesicles]

He not right understand only a part and mainly some word seems muxh disturb him ( with some others always the same... ) for some reasons...

In more my post not agressive, only a bit franckly and i put th smiley and reaction get disproportionned, stupids ! as usually !!! but i don' t do I do not do anything wrong and I only tell the truth without aggressiveness my post is correct in the rules after some are happy or unhappy it is not my problem.

It is very clear the Chinese is not the problem but goverment, officials, policy are, OPACITY.

1/ Vey few infos with China in more for the 2nd Army in the world !!!
2/ In any language even in Chinese sometimes a little more but on very rare posts on forums and some blogs i have search and i know.
We see especially as Deino have problems.
3/ Majority of experts/reliable observers are Western and understand in part the Chines don' t speak or so few
- Deino
- Henri K
- Franco Russe definitely one or the best specialist for Orbats for China ofc he had a little lexicon to to understand the essential, we exchanges infos ... saddly he left and very damage !
- i found reliable infos in French special. mag exist one personn aware about it

And mainly i have all or almost on Russian Army and i don' t speack Russian... and even before internet les difficult for have ofc i have alway majority of infos from around 40 years...end of the discussion.

Others Asian languages are difficult esp. Japanese but DOD provide all in 2 languages.

I don't quite understand what you mean exactly but assume that you believe that it is the secrecy of the Chinese military not the language.

I think the argument that many others have been making is that most of the information about the Chinese military can be found on Chinese websites and chat boards if you know where to look. It's not that the Chinese govn't does not release info. They do it on the regular basis. That's how most expert China watchers found their info. Many SDF members have provided many examples of how Chinese/foreign experts can provide accurate information on many top-secret and high-profile projects way ahead of everyone else. they are not 007's and have not stolen those sensitive info through spying and espionage. They got their info the same way that we can: Chinese media, etc, which means the Chinese govn't releases those info.

Most westerners don't understand Chinese language, which suggests that they certainly don't know how the Chinese do things. That's why they can't find the info, which has been in front of their faces all along. Keep in mind that you need to understand the language and understand how the Chinese govn't does things. I speak Chinese myself (fluent on the speaking part but not quiet so much on the reading and writing). However, I have absolutely no idea how to find any of the info on Chinese military. Why? I don't know how the Chinese govn't does things. I don't know where to look.

So before blaming the Chinese govn't for keeping everything secret, just look at other experts who can actually deduce sensitive information about the Chinese military.

You can blame HOW they release their info and HOW they won't do it in the way similar to the western ways. However, you can't accuse them of not releasing the info. Because they do.