J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[FORBIN]

First time i see with external loads, weapons or FT, it is ?

 

[Blackstone]

Oh, did I use the word invisible? I don't see it anywhere in my post... But the purpose of stealth is to "hinder" radar detection by the enemy, no? Did I say the J-20's main goal was dog-fighting? (It may be as 2 stealth fighters may both have a difficult time locking onto each other in BVR.) Or did I simply say that it's amazing to me that a large jet with supposedly under-power engines is able to maneuver so beautifully? I think the answer's in the text.

"Hate to be a wet blanket, but J-20's not amazing! Nothing amazing here." LOL Who's here just to argue again?

And what "combat" has the F-22 seen? What foes has it fought against? If any mission is as good as combat, then if China sends J-20 to fly a lap somewhere in the South China Sea to call it "air patrol", is that combat? Or how about if they, for some reason, decide to use it to drop a bomb on a cave with 4 suspected terrorists sitting inside?

Ok, I see I might have offended your sensitivities, and if that's the case, you have my regrets. On F-22 in combat, Google it. You'll have to use a VPN if you live in China to get past communist censorship.

 

[Blitzo]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. My statement on the J-20 stands.

Okay, just try to keep the fallout from your opinion brief please, for the rest of us.

Because we have all been here long enough to recognise that the sort statement you expressed in this instance, even if genuine, is the kind of firestarter that can result in pages and pages of heated and passive aggressive back and forth discussions. I've been part of more than a few in my own time.
Unfortunately such discussions make following the actual thread topic itself difficult and it seems like in these few days and weeks there will continue to be new photos released in dribs and drabs... And the discussion itself in this case is not even particularly rooted in a sensible cause; it is basically one person saying "I think j-20 is awesome!" and you saying "I think j-20 doesnt deserve to be called awesome".


You said that you hate to be a wet blanket and I have to say that is an admirably accurate term for what your contribution was.

 

[Blitzo]

Ok, I see I might have offended your sensitivities, and if that's the case, you have my regrets. On F-22 in combat, Google it. You'll have to use a VPN if you live in China to get past communist censorship.

Okay see, this is what I mean.

I'm not sure what your problem is; some of your posts in some threads are constructive and make for interesting reading but then every now and then you just seem to like to drop some flamebait and then use it for your own political axe grinding.

Can you give it a rest please?

I won't even appeal to forum rules yet, but as part of general etiquette, can you just give it a rest in this thread? If you really want to talk about all these things whether it is politics or expressing your statements about J-20 or Chinese engines, feel free to start a new thread, but can you please leave this proper information, news and picture threads alone, so the rest of us can navigate it easier without having to wade through pages and pages of passive aggressive drivel?

 

[shen]

Blackstone is one of the rare class of American patriots who also understands China's position. I think the world needs more of him.

 

[manqiangrexue]

Ok, I see I might have offended your sensitivities, and if that's the case, you have my regrets. On F-22 in combat, Google it. You'll have to use a VPN if you live in China to get past communist censorship.

Oh no, Stoney, I pride myself on being difficult to offend. I'm not offended at all. You point something out, and I can challenge it, right? I had to correct you that I never said some things that you thought I said and the fact is that the F-22 has never successfully used its stealth to do anything that an F-15/16 could not do just as easily. It did non-hostile escorts of Russian bombers passing by, and even intercepted some third gen fighters, also none of which got nasty or could not be handled by legacy fighters with equal amounts of ease.

So in terms of meaningful engagements (shooting down armed hostile fighters or striking within enemy SAM-fortified territory), all stealth fighters are equal. If you count all engagements, then the F-22 is clearly ahead, but I'm certain that if the J-20 is capable of flying and using its radio, it can escort missions just as easily. All depends on how you wanna count things; the meaningful way, or the way that can make your argument look better.

 

[Blackstone]

Oh no, Stoney, I pride myself on being difficult to offend. I'm not offended at all. You point something out, and I can challenge it, right? I had to correct you that I never said some things that you thought I said and the fact is that the F-22 has never successfully used its stealth to do anything that an F-15/16 could not do just as easily. It did non-hostile escorts of Russian bombers passing by, and even intercepted some third gen fighters, also none of which got nasty or could not be handled by legacy fighters with equal amounts of ease.

So in terms of meaningful engagements (shooting down armed hostile fighters or striking within enemy SAM-fortified territory), all stealth fighters are equal. If you count all engagements, then the F-22 is clearly ahead, but I'm certain that if the J-20 is capable of flying and using its radio, it can escort missions just as easily. All depends on how you wanna count things; the meaningful way, or the way that can make your argument look better.

I'm still not sure why you think I misquoted you, since I didn't actually quote you...

On the J-20, I don't really know how it will turn out. Is it a true Gen-5 fighter? Some question that. I just want to wait for proof positive. I also don't know how well the J-20 stacks up against an updated F-22. My gut feeling is F-22s would sweep J-20s out of the sky, but I can be persuaded with facts.

 

[Blackstone]

Okay see, this is what I mean.

I'm not sure what your problem is; some of your posts in some threads are constructive and make for interesting reading but then every now and then you just seem to like to drop some flamebait and then use it for your own political axe grinding.

Can you give it a rest please?

I won't even appeal to forum rules yet, but as part of general etiquette, can you just give it a rest in this thread? If you really want to talk about all these things whether it is politics or expressing your statements about J-20 or Chinese engines, feel free to start a new thread, but can you please leave this proper information, news and picture threads alone, so the rest of us can navigate it easier without having to wade through pages and pages of passive aggressive drivel?

Well Bltizo, I generally answer in kind, admittedly not always, but on balance. On the other hand, you're generally a reasonable chap, so I'll take your feedback in tow.

 

[manqiangrexue]

I'm still not sure why you think I misquoted you, since I didn't actually quote you...

On the J-20, I don't really know how it will turn out. Is it a true Gen-5 fighter? Some question that. I just want to wait for proof positive. I also don't know how well the J-20 stacks up against an updated F-22. My gut feeling is F-22s would sweep J-20s out of the sky, but I can be persuaded with facts.

You didn't quote me; you insinuated that I had meant some things while I clearly did not say them. Reread post 2940 first paragraph to understand.

Yeah, and I said that I also don't know if the F-22 is a radar-hindering aircraft when it comes to Russian/Chinese radar. We can wait for proof positive together. I have a feeling that the Chinese will load up the J-20 with goodies and surprises for the F-22 (possibly developed with their new supercomputers) and the Raptor pilots won't even know how they ended up in the ocean with a life vest rather than inside their jet cockpit at 60,000 feet 30 seconds ago, but I can be persuaded with facts as well.

 

[Blitzo]

Well Bltizo, I generally answer in kind, admittedly not always, but on balance. On the other hand, you're generally a reasonable chap, so I'll take your feedback in tow.

Thank you, I do appreciate it.
And please do feel free to create a new thread if there are topics of a certain discourse that you want to discuss, but if those topics also have the likely consistent likelihood of causing major tangents on the dedicated threads for J-20 or what not.

That said, in this case I think the cat is already out of the bag and the chain of replies between you and others will not be stopped until the discussion burns itself out or until a moderator intervenes. But at least the above understanding has been reached