J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

[Blackstone]

You didn't quote me; you insinuated that I had meant some things while I clearly did not say them. Reread post 2940 first paragraph to understand.

Yeah, and I said that I also don't know if the F-22 is a radar-hindering aircraft when it comes to Russian/Chinese radar. We can wait for proof positive together. I have a feeling that the Chinese will load up the J-20 with goodies and surprises for the F-22 and the Raptor pilots won't even know how they ended up in the ocean with a life vest rather than inside their jet cockpit at 60,000 feet 30 seconds ago, but I can be persuaded with facts as well.

I used 'invisible' in post 2940 to convey low observable and radar evading. No more than that. Agreed on waiting for more facts; glad you would consider evidence/facts and alter your believes accordingly.

 

[manqiangrexue]

I used 'invisible' in post 2940 to convey low observable and radar evading. No more than that. Agreed on waiting for more facts; glad you would consider evidence/facts and alter your believes accordingly.

Well, "invisible" and "low observable" are very different things and you chastised me for making that mistake in post 2933 (though you did so incorrectly since I used radar-evading).

Yes, if we had those facts, (which we likely never will), we'd likely not be having this discussion; we'd be in WWIII. Most people here don't appreciate it when you make assumptions like American jets being superior (which you did) without those facts, which you just admitted to not having.

 

[plawolf]

But does J-20 need 4 drop-tanks for its flight to Zhuhai?
Zhuhai is less than 1800 km or 1000 nm from Chengdu apart.

I don't imagine the J20 plans on landing at Zhuhai, so it will likely be a round trip, so you will need to double the distance.

The J20 will likely also perform some aerobatics while at Zhuhai, if all those practicing is any indication, so they need to make allowances for that fuel as well.

While it is certainly possible that they might slap some tanks on, which could be jettisoned before arriving at Zhuhai. But unless the pylons could be jettisoned as well, it will undermine the overal feel of a 5th gen stealth fighter.

Also, typically fighters perform at air shows with minimal fuel to get the best TWR, and given the J20 is already underpowered with AL31s rather than WS15s, I cannot see them wanting to do any heavy maneuvering with near full internal fuel if they want to have enough left in the tank for the return trip back to Chengdu.

We need to remember that while Zhuhai will be an important event for CAC, it is not the only thing they need to focus on. They will not allow their preparations for Zhuhai to negatively impact their normal work.

As such, it would be illogical to assume everything that happens at CAC in the days and weeks ahead are all Zhuhai related.

On balance, it is most likely that the J20 with tanks is just undergoing routine testing and evaluation as the J20 programme progresses, and is not related to the Zhuhai preparations.

I think is most likely that the J20 contingent will simply fly to Zhuhai on internal fuel (likely won't even need to leave with full tanks); arrive with maybe 1/4 or 1/5 of full fuel load; perform its routine, and then hook up with a tanker to top up before returning to Chengdu or even heading directly to a PLAAF air base for delivery.

 

[Blitzo]

But does J-20 need 4 drop-tanks for its flight to Zhuhai?
Zhuhai is less than 1800 km or 1000 nm from Chengdu apart.

It might be completely unrelated to the airshow tbh, and they're just happening to field it in this instance for a test flight or something, or it might even be flying to a different location.

The airshow is still a few weeks away. I suppose we'll know if the tanks have any relevance to the airshow by the time it happens.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Well then, I'd hope you reserve your thoughts for other fighters as well, such as the F-35, with no combat missions, and an engine that occasionally catches fire. Or the F-22, which has no (significant) combat missions (did it get 1 or 2 sorties against a small third world middle-eastern country with no viable air force or SAMs? Not sure) and occasionally strangles its pilots...

To me, one thing that is amazing about the J-20 is how well it maneuvers despite being "under-powered." That's an aerodynamic engineering marvel right there for me. Everything else, is as it's supposed to be: classified.

Heh! Heh! Heh! its so nice to see my brothers argue here and I don't have to get involved?? I picked your post to comment because I have two rather minor disagreements??

1. The F-22 has been flying "combat missions" since IOC in 2005, in fact every flight pits the F-22 against an adversary or some mission objective, claiming that this very capable fighter is an unknown is simply denying the truth. The F-22 has done some astounding things in Syria, where they have been flying actual combat air patrols and serving as an airborne AWACs/Command Platform.

2. If indeed the Engineer is correct, and the J-20 is indeed shorter than the FLANKER??? ( It is, and he is correct), then its a mistake to call the J-20 "under-powered", since the AL-31FC powers some versions of the Russian and Chinese Flankers quite adequately .

I will agree that the J-20 is an aerodynamic marvel, and I have commented many times that it flies very well, and seems very tractable even being "beat on" as these short videos illustrate. While I well understand "Steels" caveats, I would agree that this is a very fine airplane, and likely to be quite stealthy, and may have other outstanding capabilities. It is in my honest opinion the first "clean sheet" design 5th gen fighter design out of China, and honestly one of the first real "clean sheet" military aircraft of any generation, and as such is an extremely fine first effort, I am a fan!

 

[Iron Man]

Do airframes typically have a longer lifespan than engines? If so then the earlier model J-20s could get their AL-31FC engines swapped out during their midlife upgrades for domestic WS-15s.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Do airframes typically have a longer lifespan than engines? If so then the earlier model J-20s could get their AL-31FC engines swapped out during their midlife upgrades for domestic WS-15s.

Yes Sir, you are quite right, and when first flown the J-20 proto-types had larger intake duct openings, those ducts where likely optimized for the anticipated WS-15 airflows. The first LRIP birds 2011 and following had the inlet reduced in size to optimize airflows for the AL-31F series of engines.

I am rather certain the J-20 engineers have allowed sufficient room with the fuselage for the WS-15, and "reducting" and mounting will be a no brainer, it would not surprise me at all for them to introduce the F-117S if the Russians need Chinese support as they ramp up their intimidation of NATO countries?

 

[danielchin]

Has anyone seen this before? J-20 carrying four fuel tanks under its wings.

 

[Blitzo]

Has anyone seen this before? J-20 carrying four fuel tanks under its wings.

Yes. It was posted a few pages back.

 

[Deino]

Not sure how reliable this is esp. since the one who posted this is usually a very harsh proponent that the current J-20s are using WS-10s ...

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According to the leader of 毛发党, the WS-15 has just finished the ground testing, and it is ready to pass the test on the IL-76 platform. While the current J-20A uses the AL-31FM2, a special customized edition of the AL-31, also a joint development between China and Salut, just like the GT25000.

While many people in the CD would purposely discard the news about the WS-15, they would only select the information that suits their own agenda. The guy's words were gold when he claimed that J-20 "undoubtedly" used the AL-31F, but those anti-Taihang trolls suddenly thrash him now because he has revealed the good news about the WS-15.

BTW, the revealing specs of the WS-15 seems to be surprising, it looks that China is aiming for a 180KN and TWR 11 high specs fifth gen turbofan jet engine.

The WS-15 seems to pass the ground testing by August 9th 2015.

Like I said since so long: similar to the once and long still secret original AL-31FN for the J-10 the CAC chose a similar approach for the J-20. And since these are not exact AL-31FN Series 3, they were never mentioned or included in the number of engines reserved for the J-10B and J-10C.

Would be interesting to know the specific thrust of this engine. If it follows the regular FM2 about 145kN should be assumed.

Deino