J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

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manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Air Force Brat said:
Heh! Heh! Heh! its so nice to see my brothers argue here and I don't have to get involved?? I picked your post to comment because I have two rather minor disagreements??

1. The F-22 has been flying "combat missions" since IOC in 2005, in fact every flight pits the F-22 against an adversary or some mission objective, claiming that this very capable fighter is an unknown is simply denying the truth. The F-22 has done some astounding things in Syria, where they have been flying actual combat air patrols and serving as an airborne AWACs/Command Platform.

2. If indeed the Engineer is correct, and the J-20 is indeed shorter than the FLANKER??? ( It is, and he is correct), then its a mistake to call the J-20 "under-powered", since the AL-31FC powers some versions of the Russian and Chinese Flankers quite adequately .

I will agree that the J-20 is an aerodynamic marvel, and I have commented many times that it flies very well, and seems very tractable even being "beat on" as these short videos illustrate. While I well understand "Steels" caveats, I would agree that this is a very fine airplane, and likely to be quite stealthy, and may have other outstanding capabilities. It is in my honest opinion the first "clean sheet" design 5th gen fighter design out of China, and honestly one of the first real "clean sheet" military aircraft of any generation, and as such is an extremely fine first effort, I am a fan!
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In my book, I consider the F-22 definitely a very capable bird. The reason I mentioned its lack of engagement against any near peers (I know that would be dangerously close to WWIII) as reason to doubt its ability was to throw Blackstone's logic back at him. He thinks that because it's a Chinese machine, you need to see it's abilities to believe it, and probably have it checked by western experts to confirm, while if it's an American machine, you can assume it's top notch.

And actually, that the J-20 may not necessarily be under-powered with AL-31 (especially with a later advanced version, possibly specially upgraded for J-20) was what I had said from very early on, which is why I put "under-powered" in quotations. It is shorter than the Flanker, no doubt uses more composites than the Flanker, and it flies clean. The delta-canard design is also known to have great agility, more-so than the conventional design of the Flanker, which is already a highly maneuverable aircraft; for those reasons, it may be quite adequately powered. However, its underside is bulked for internal missile carriage and does not utilize the lift-generating concave designed used by Flankers, stealth designs tend to be heavier (F-22 is quite heavy for its length compared to legacy fighters of similar size) and no Flanker can supercruise on AL-31 anyway (though that is more of a range issue than a maneuvering issue).
 
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Hyperwarp

Hyperwarp

Captain
Deino said:
Not sure how reliable this is esp. since the one who posted this is usually a very harsh proponent that the current J-20s are using WS-10s ... :confused:

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Like I said since so long: similar to the once and long still secret original AL-31FN for the J-10 the CAC chose a similar approach for the J-20. And since these are not exact AL-31FN Series 3, they were never mentioned or included in the number of engines reserved for the J-10B and J-10C.

Would be interesting to know the specific thrust of this engine. If it follows the regular FM2 about 145kN should be assumed.

Deino
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Its actually 14,500 kgf or 142 kN. Roughly the same as 117S. Here is the Salut link for the FM2 -
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The wikipedia article has confused kN and kgf on several occasion -
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That table should be corrected as:

AL-31FN - 12,700 kgf or ≃125 kN
AL-31FN Series 3 - 13,700 kgf or ≃135 kN
AL-31F M1 - 13,500 kgf or ≃132 kN
AL-31F M2 - 14,500 kgf or ≃142 kN
 
by78

by78

General
Deuce!

(2336 x 4176)
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MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
Deino said:
short video ...

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Flight display loadout that's for sure, no external fuel tank. We shall see if the flight display got "updated" to 2-ship flight display, because the official website's list still goes by the Sep 30th version.

But if and when the J-20 debuted in Zhuhai airshow and made the flight display, with all those high resolution cameras and video recorders (I won't be suprised if some foreign spy agencies sneaked a few radar kits in to obtain some RCS intel on J-20, seriously), even the most arduent China-bashers out there can't deny J-20 is real.
 
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