J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

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plawolf

Lieutenant General
These are national defense corporations and profit will never be their number 1 priority. China will never allow its national defense to be compromised by greed and that's why they have a strict policy regarding what is and isn't allowed for export, just like every other major military power.

Its not just about the fear of someone nicking your newest innovations, its about potential adversaries getting enough understanding of your gear to develop countermeasures or find other areas of vulnerability to exploit in times of war. That's why China never sells the same version of a weapons system as what their own forces use.

China not having an export version fighter ASEA by 2012 is not the same as China not having a fighter ASEA by 2012.
 

Lion

Senior Member
That would be logical if China was the most advanced nation producing latest technology and not willing to risk others copy it. Surely they have some fields they run pretty good but talking about J6, J7, J10 and even JF17 I doubt that it is the case.

PLA Type 99A2 tout one of the world top 3 best tank is not in export list. Pakistan Army has to settle for second best Al Khalid MBT.

Definitely in terms of fighter, they will reserve some goodies for themselves rather than others.

J-10B maybe for export but will be a export item without the best features PLAAF has.
 

tphuang

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oh com'on, you are starting with a kanwa article. It still thinks China will be putting a mechanically scanning radar on the next generation fighter. Why are we even arguing about a point that's probably not even true.

When it comes to something like export, it will be decided on an individual basis. We can look at something like VT-1A to Peru for example. The original tank was really not that good, so then they got rejected. But you know, we were told that China came back with a much better offer and it'd take a couple of years for it to be fully ready. What that tells you is that they probably came back adding in a bunch of subsystems on ZTZ-99 that they weren't ready to export before and they still need to tweak it a little bit so that foreign armies won't know exactly what PLA is using. So, the subsystems on exported version is never going to be the same as the domestic version. In some cases, they might be better if that becomes available. But, anything new and sensitive would need approvals before they can be added. Internet warriors' views toward how advanced a subsystem is will not affect how China regards the same system.
 

Munir

Banned Idiot
PLA Type 99A2 tout one of the world top 3 best tank is not in export list. Pakistan Army has to settle for second best Al Khalid MBT.

Definitely in terms of fighter, they will reserve some goodies for themselves rather than others.

J-10B maybe for export but will be a export item without the best features PLAAF has.


The 99A2 is surely not the first tank China produced. El Khaled is the first for Pakistan. I am looking forward what El Khaled 1 or 2 will be. I still need to know the numbers and the costs of the 99A2. If it becomes a huge export success then we can talk. Sofar I can see the nations would rather settle for other options. Pakistan was not ontrested for latest but something that suits there warfare the best. Different engine, different sensors.

I have heard so often about China reserving latest. All I can do is smile. Baseless and I doubt it was the cast in hte past. Maybe in the future.
 

Lion

Senior Member
The 99A2 is surely not the first tank China produced. El Khaled is the first for Pakistan. I am looking forward what El Khaled 1 or 2 will be. I still need to know the numbers and the costs of the 99A2. If it becomes a huge export success then we can talk. Sofar I can see the nations would rather settle for other options. Pakistan was not ontrested for latest but something that suits there warfare the best. Different engine, different sensors.

I have heard so often about China reserving latest. All I can do is smile. Baseless and I doubt it was the cast in hte past. Maybe in the future.

It's not abt cost. Even u are willing to pay. Clearly PLA is not interested to sell. PLA is not concern about whether it will be export success anot. They are concern they will attain the technology edge over other armed forces or rival.

Baseless? It is you who need to prove it groundless, not us. I already give a very clear example.

Accept it! Even Pakistan can afford Euro Typhoon, BAE is not going to install the same,best ECM sensor they have. They have to hold back something in case the thing they going to export going to turn against. Same as every big country who can afford to design, build their own.
 

Blitzo

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Another Rick Fisher article:

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Chinese Chengdu J-10 Emerges
Aviation Week
by Richard Fisher, Jr.
Published on January 14th, 2010


Wrapped in secrecy for most of the decade following its 1998 test flight, Chengdu Aircraft Corp.’s J-10 multirole fighter is set to enter the global market. Following a development history that extends to the 1960s, and five years in the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), the J-10 may emerge in the market soon after 2010, offering capabilities approaching Lockheed Martin’s F-16C Block 60, at half the price.

About 150 J-10s may be in PLAAF units. This could exceed 300 based on Russian disclosures that China purchased 300-400 12.7-ton-thrust Salyut AL-31FN engines for the fighter. Pakistan, which received Chinese nuclear weapons technology and generations of conventional weapons, will be the debut J-10 customer.

Reports from Pakistan say a deal has been reached to sell 36 J-10s to Islamabad for $1.4 billion, about $40 million per unit. F-16C Block 60 fighters with AN/APG-80 active phased array radar were sold to the United Arab Emirates for about $80 million each. It is not known whether the price of Pakistan’s J-10 includes spares, support and training.

Pakistan could buy 70-150 J-10s. The country has been an F-16 operator since 1982, and is taking delivery of 18 F-16C/D Block 52 fighters, half of an expected sale of 36. Pakistani sources tell DTI that the J-10 is not expected to become a coproduction project with Pakistan. There have also been reports of interest in the J-10 by Iran, Myanmar and the Philippines.

China has not released data about the J-10. Recent Chinese media reports, however, offer the following: length, 16.43 meters (53.9 ft.); wingspan, 8.78 or 9.75 meters; maximum takeoff weight, 19,227 kg. (42,300 lb.); maximum weapons load, 7,000 kg.; combat radius, 1,100 km. (683 mi.); maximum speed, Mach 2; maneuverability, 9g.

Despite a history of Israeli and Russian design assistance, and its dependence on the Salyut engine, China touts the J-10 as a domestic product. November festivities marking the PLAAF’s 60th anniversary featured a J-10 aerobatic display and the showing of a prototype and full-scale, twin-seat mockup at the national aviation museum.

Besides price, what makes the J-10 attractive is competitive electronic and weapon systems. The latest version, sometimes called the J-10B (or FC-20 when slated for Pakistan) emerged in Internet photos in January 2009. It features a diverterless supersonic inlet similar in principle to that of the Joint Strike Fighter. The nose is redesigned, with an infrared search-and-track system in front of the windscreen and what appears to be a canted radar bulkhead consistent with a fixed electronically scanned array radar. If true, this would be a major advance for China’s radar technology, and may make the J-10 competitive with upgraded Western and Russian fourth-generation-plus fighters. The cockpit is dominated by three multifunction displays and a head-up display.

The J-10 has 11 hardpoints, including five on the fuselage. Its principal counter-air weapon is the Luoyang PL 12 active radar-guided air-to-air missile (AAM) with 70-km. range. With a twin-AAM pylon on the inner wing mount, plus two on forward fuselage mounts, the J-10 could carry eight PL-12s. Short-range AAMs include the PL-8, a copy of the Israeli Python-3, and an improved version of this missile, the PL-9, both helmet-sighted. The J-10 may soon feature a more capable helmet-mounted display and a new fifth-generation AAM from Luoyang.

The fighter’s market success will depend on China’s ability to produce reliable advanced turbofan engines. Rival fighter maker Shenyang has been developing its WS-10A Taihang turbofan since the mid-1980s, which could offer 13.2 tons of thrust. Russian sources believe it is beset by developmental difficulties.

Chengdu may have a competing Huashan advanced turbofan engine program, which some Chinese sources note is based on its late-1990s acquisition of the engineering data and sales rights to the Tumansky R-79 turbofan developed for the defunct Yakovlev Yak-141 supersonic vertical/short-takeoff-and-landing fighter. Nevertheless, Russian sources say China remains interested in more powerful versions of the Salyut AL-31FN, which could come in 13.5- and, eventually, 15-ton-thrust versions.

Chengdu remains ready to develop a carrier-based version of the J-10. During the PLAAF anniversary, a test pilot was reported noting that ground-test simulations prove the J-10 can operate from a carrier.

I nearly stopped reading when he wrote "Following a development history that extends to the 1960s"... Where the hell did he pull that one from... That number and a few others (PL-12 range I believe was said to be approaching 100km last time I heard) are a bit :confused:
Interesting that he mentions the J-10 carrier thing... I don't think we've heard of any evidence yet have we?
 

Munir

Banned Idiot
It's not abt cost. Even u are willing to pay. Clearly PLA is not interested to sell. PLA is not concern about whether it will be export success anot. They are concern they will attain the technology edge over other armed forces or rival.

Baseless? It is you who need to prove it groundless, not us. I already give a very clear example.

Accept it! Even Pakistan can afford Euro Typhoon, BAE is not going to install the same,best ECM sensor they have. They have to hold back something in case the thing they going to export going to turn against. Same as every big country who can afford to design, build their own.

I rather have facts.
 

Munir

Banned Idiot
I find this not a lot of educated guesses... I find it hardly related to educated. ;)

>>>Originally Posted by Lion
It's not abt cost. Even u are willing to pay. Clearly PLA is not interested to sell. PLA is not concern about whether it will be export success anot. They are concern they will attain the technology edge over other armed forces or rival.

Baseless? It is you who need to prove it groundless, not us. I already give a very clear example.

Accept it! Even Pakistan can afford Euro Typhoon, BAE is not going to install the same,best ECM sensor they have. They have to hold back something in case the thing they going to export going to turn against. Same as every big country who can afford to design, build their own.
 
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